QuestionQUESTION: Hi, I have a 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood FWD, with the TEVES MARK 2 braking system. I recently installed new air shocks on the car and could not get the air ride pump to kick in. So, in an effort to repair this problem I was pulling relays under the hood to try and find the one for the air ride. Well, the air ride now works but, the brakes do not. The pump on the TEVES will not kick on. I went through relays again and couldn't figure it out. So, I bought a Chiltons Manual, which is not very informative on the TEVES system at all. I was able to find where the pump relay and the main relay are located. I purchased new relays for both, installed them and still not working. I had 1 5-amp fuse in the passenger compartment blown which I promptly replaced. My next step was to get a light tester and confirm I had power to the relays, which I do. I then jumped across the relay to manually engage the pump and it did kick on. So, I tried the pedal and as soon as the pressure released the brake and ABS light came back on. I went back to the pump relay and jumped not from the 12-volt main supply but from what I'm guessing is the pressure switch input on the relay because when using it to jump the pump it will kick itself off when the pressure is built up. With a new relay put in I would have thought that it would have worked but, its not. The only fuses I can find dealing with the ABS are 2 5-amp fuses in the passenger compartment. The Chiltons manual says there should be 2 30-amp fuses near the relay, I cant located them. All I could find were fusible links which are good. It also says that there should be a 5-amp fuse in line to the EBCM, I cant locate.
I consider myself to be fairly capable under the hood as I do all my own repairs but, this has me stumped! I would love to know if you think I'm overlooking something or any insight you may have to my problem. If you might know where the fuses might be that I cant locate, any testing procedures I should try or any troubleshooting I can do. Could somehow the EBCM have gotten messed up? I also checked the connections at all wheel sensors and they all seem fine.
Please HELP, I'm on my 3rd day off troubleshooting on my own. I would be happy to provide any further information needed.
Thanks, Benji Brink
ANSWER: Hi,
The first thing you did wrong was run out and get a Chilton manual and it apparently went downhill from there.
Relays rarely fail and I know why you changed 2 of them because of lack of information in the Chilton manual. Personally, I don't ever touch anything other than either Mitchell or the factory service manual or I won't attempt to diagnose anything. The indiscriminate changing of parts as well as jumping circuits can create even more problems in the diagnoses and make everything worse. You are dealing with computers here and it does not take much to burn them up.
You first problem is you are dealing with a 23 year old car of which the last model of production of this body was what 1993. This means that even your Cadillac techs unless they have an old timer that specialized on the anti lock brake system for that car can't work on it. No books!
You are fighting yourself. Anyone that has worked on cars has run into this.
As for the time line for fixing this, well you need to stop changing parts and jumping circuits before you do burn something up like the ABS module, which are not only big bucks, but are not made any more, and if they are running different systems because of your specific on the TEVES that's scary too, because are you going to be able to find the correct module, computer or whatever you might have going on now after attempting diagnostics.
Look, I understand why you did what you did, but you are just digging yourself into a deeper grave without the needed information located in a service manual for this car.
You need to get a 1989 Cadillac Deville/Fleetwood manual. I would try Ebay and Craig's.
I do not remember any longer what year they started running multiple fuse boxes. I know 1994 big boats did, but don't remember if they did this prior to 1994.
Once you have the manual, it sounds like you are well versed in your automotive knowledge, you will know the exact fuses, the flow charts for diagnoses will be there and life will be good again. I know you would like an instant answer, but I have wrenched for over 30 years and although I worked with Oldsmobile and Cadillac for a number of years, I also in my theft repair business worked on just about every make and model from 1974 up, involving the dealer "unfixable" wiring issues, dash replacement,anti lock problems and everything you could imagine and when you are speaking about one specific problem on a specific vehicle that has not been made for 23 years on a specific braking system, my memory is not that good.
In fact, if one is keeping an older car like this, trying to do any electronic diagnoses without a factory manual can be very costly in time and labor. You have already fought this thing for 3 days and you will continue to fight it without the factory service manual.
From my experience,Chilton and other after market manuals are not only a waste of money, but the information is very general and I have found misinformation in them. Kind of like what you are saying about the inline fuses. These books are not meant for the specific diagnoses you are trying to get.
I wish I could help you further, but all I can say is get the factory manual. Nothing else will replace it!
By the way, you did not say what the blown fuse was for and I was curious if you had blown it out or if it had been blown for a while for some worthless accessory.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Yeah, I definitely do not recommend the Hiltons manual for anything. It is very vague and more of a general information book. The fuse that was blown was the 5-amp in the main fuse block for the Electric Brake, I'm assuming its the pump motor relay fuse. No, it was not blown prior to swapping relay's around. That's why I keep thinking this is such a simple problem that I'm taking way to far.
I did obtain some great information on reatta.net, that had diagnostic flow charts. I thought I was making great progress because all the checks where good until I checked resistance between pump relay connector pin 5 and body ground. I got no response from my VOM, it was as if I were holding the leads in the air. So, it seemed as if I had a wire problem. But, I continued the flow chart and everything else checked out. Even the test that used pin 5. So, I don't know where I'm at with it at this point. I still can not find the 5-amp in-line fuse to the EBCM they talk about. It is supposed to be taped 3 inches below the abs-dash connector's. But, I'm not seeing it.
I have looked online for the GM service book and will be ordering one but, I am just to tired of waiting to get it fixed. I talked with my local Chevy Dealer and they do not have the manual I need. I will be calling a nearby dealer in another town that does service Cadillac to see if they will let me copy a couple pages. The dealer here in town referred me to them as they both trade books and other information. So, with any luck I will have the proper manual tomorrow to get the problem resolved.
Thanks for the reply,
Sincerely,
Benji Brink
AnswerHi,
Trust me when I say I understand the frustration. I have fought the simplest of problems and like you, I do not have the patience to get the answer I need. you are not alone.
The best thing is to keep it simple. Why would you have blown a fuse? Look at the initial problem. The leveling. Did swapping the relays out fix the leveling problem? You said it was fixed, but you did not say what fixed it. The other relay you changed. Was it for the anti locks?
That is why I was saying creating another problem.
I answered a question right after yours. The guy had an after market ignition interrupt that failed. He decided to diagnose it by jumping the starter with the ignition key in the on position and got the engine running. He bypassed the starter disable, but now with the key in the off position and removed the buzzer was on as was the security light. His factory theft deterrent requires rotation of the ignition lock to start. Because he had the key on starting=on the engine, the computer did not see the rotation of the ignition lock. Now he had feed back from either a blown fuse or he burned up the module.
In other words, using old fashion testing procedures created yet another problem. I don't want that to happen to you.
If you can get access to the factory manual and copy it or borrow it, you should be able to keep this simple.
I really wish you the best of luck here. Hopefully it will be simple and cheap for you. Let me know how it works out.
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