QuestionQUESTION: I bought a used 1998 Chrysler Town & Country LXi, with all-wheel drive and a 3.8 liter engine, 6 years ago. Been very happy until 3 years ago when I started having starting problems. The vehicle would not start, but most of the warning lights, radio, horn, headlights, and accessories would turn on. Intially after a short wait, the vehicle would start and then not give me a problem for approx 6 months. Then it would do it again. The vehicle would turn over, start, then immediatly die. This would happen 3 times before it would not turn over at all. My dash instrument cluster would not have any power, which included the LED display, but I would have all the other electrical components with power, radio,seat adjustment, warning lights above the instrument panel, lights, etc..
This continued to become more frequent, taking longer time to be able to start. Now the vehicle will not start at all. I had to have it towed from Walmart, luckily only 2 miles away. Recently I had the battery replace, the starter replaced, and considered haveing the computer replaced.
I recently read that the instrument cluster board was made poorly and the welds would get cracks in them, causing the instrument panel not to work.
Could this be what is preventing it to start as well?
When I turn the key on and try to start the vehicle, my warning lights would come on, some of which are the alarm set light, the brake light, and others. Is this normal as well?
Thanks,
Dallas
ANSWER: Hi Dallas,
There are three possibilities depending upon whether or not the starter motor will crank the engine when you try the start position of the key.
If the starter won't work that is a problem with that circuit uniquely: the ignition switch, the park/neutral safety switch, the starter relay, the start solenoid swith, the starter motor or the wiring.
If the starter works but the engine won't start that could be related to a fault in the engine control systems that would best be diagnosed by a fault code readout that you can get done for free at a nationwide parts store such as Autozone. An independent shop wil charge around $40 for a readout. In any case get any fault code 4-digit numbers, ask what they mean, what they recommend and the cost. Then let me know and we'll compare notes wit the shop manual.
If the starter works, the engine catches, but it shuts off after 3 seconds then that is a sign that the vehicle theft security system hasn't been disarmed. Try using the door key: lock then unlock the passenger side door and see if it will then start and run normally or not. Let me know.
The cluster can have bad solder joints which can complicate matters a bit too. If it involves the digital data communication system wires then that could be involved in the anti-theft system situation. But let us see if any faulu codes for that possibility appear on the readout. So please clarify exactly what is the behavior currently.
Roland
PS Sorry for the dealy but I just found your question in the 'pool' to which it had been referred by Kevin.
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QUESTION: As of now, the vehicle is sitting in my drive and it will not start. All lights and controls work, but just not the cluster board displays, which include the LED window that shows the mileage and codes. I had a local mechanic try to hook up a wired remote starter switch, which powered up the starter and turned over the engine, but the vehicle would not start. I tried using the door key on the passenger side. This did not work. After locking the door and then unlocking, the lock would automatically lock.
I am unable to move the vehicle, so taking it to a place like Autozone is not able to be done without towing.
Every time in the past, as I assume happened to my wife when it quit completely, the vehicle would turn over and start, but then would immediately die. You could try this twice more with the same results, and then it would not turnover at all.
The vehicle would be in a dormant stage as it is now. In the past 3 years, it would start eventually, waiting 30 min to a couple of days, but now it hasn't started in many weeks.
All lights work, all electronic or electrical devices work, including seat, windows, and mirror adjustments, locks, the strip of warning lights above the instrument cluster, and any other electric devices, but not the instrument cluster and it will not turn over to start.
Quite a headache.
ANSWER: Hi Dallas,
The cluster parts that are not working are probably all those that dependent upon the function of the digital data bus which is the network of all the digital control units which must be connected for the engine to start and run, etc., etc. However most of the warning lights also depend upon that bus to run properly, so I am uncertain what is the significance of there being no LED illumination. What other display items don't work? Maybe the warning lights come on automatically when the bus message is not being received at the cluster???
It is possible that the cluster is faulty and thus interfering with that data bus syatem. You might do well to disconnect the cluster plug and see if that helps to restore the starter function.
Other than that, can the local mechanic bring over a plug-in fault code reader and plug it in to the socket under the dash by the steering column which is the best way to find out what might be wrong? In the '98 model I don't believe you can get the codes from the odometer window in any case, so a plug-in will be needed to get the fault codes. Other than buying a fault code reader yourself and plugging it in I have nothing else to suggest about this situation. Once we understand what the bus system 'sees' to be wrong then we can address that problem.
Roland
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QUESTION: Hi,
Tried to follow up with you earlier, but you were not available.
Thanks for your info.
Far as I know, all the other electrical devices work, but not the cluster.
To be clear, since I am not a mech or electrical tech, the cluster (showing speedometer, tach, and led display does not work.
Above this, as far as I know, seperate from the cluster, a thin band of lights, stretching above the cluster, embedded in the dash seperate from the cluster, does show power when I turn the key in the start position.
Of course the van will not start.
I really don't know any local mechanics who can come to my house, but I will look.
I took your advice and looked for the cluster plug, to disconnect it, but I didn't know where it is.
I searched the internet and couldn't find information on how to do this.
Can you guide me through this or provide me a website that shows this for me? Depending if I have the right tools or not, I am sure I can get this done one afternoon that I am off of work (I work delivering bread goods about 12 - 15 hours a day from early morn (2am) to sometimes late afternoon (5pm). and off Wed & Sun.
Anyway I appreciate your adviced and expertise.
Daljaxon
AnswerHi Dallas,
My suspicion is that there is a 'cold' solder joint at the place where the multi-wire plug socket on the back of the cluster attaches to the printed circuit board of the cluster, most likely at pin #9 or 10 which are the wires that carry the digital signals for all the gauges, and the absence of which will also cause the other things you observe. If you have a soldering pencil and some electronic solder try to reheat those connections between the socket pins and the board. It is fairly common for such joints to fatigue with the passage of time.
Here are the steps to remove the cluster:
Remove the steering column cover (I believe this is the upper 'shroud' which is held im place from underneath the column by 3 screws in the lower shroud).
Remove the cluster bezel:
remove the left end-cap of the dash
remove screw at left end of bezel and remove headlamp switch
remove screw holding bezel to instrument panel on each side of steering column
remove screws on the underside of the bezel just above the cluster
disconnect clip that holds cluster bezel to panel from above right vent louver
Separate bezel from instrument panel.
Disconnect wires from back of bezel
Remove screws holding the cluster to the panel
Rotate top of cluster rearward
Remove cluster, disconnect wires from rear
Then remove screws holding back cover to cluster. Finally, identify pins 9 and 10 of the plug socket and reheat those wire joints to the circuit board with the soldering pencil. You might also touch the other ones as well just in case. Then put the plug in the socket and go for a test ride before reassembly to assure that the connection is re-established
Reverse procedure to install
If that doesn't affect the situation then we can try to fake out the body computer to make it believe that we have used a door key to disarm the theft system. The fact that the system is showing a light that indicates it hasn't been disarmed makes me believe that each wire from the door lock to the computer is 'open' due to flexing at the hinge. By going to the body computer with the same 2 resistors that are located in the door locks we can simulate the lock/unlock action which then, ideally, will lift the alarm shutdown which apparently is preventing the engine from starting.
Roland
