QuestionQUESTION: Ok, 2 weeks ago we replaced the radiator fans. Had just put last bolt on when we heard a loud POP. Tried to start the van..... NOTHING.... by nothing I mean no starter, no fuel pump kicking on, only the lite clicking of underhood relays. We have replaced starter w solonid, all relays and fuses,the cam and the crank sensors, the battery and are at a loss. So after work today I decided to test the starter wire for POWER so with my test light off I went. And guess what power at the Relay box thingy but NONE at the starter. So my husband goes and tries the test light thinking I did it wrong... xcept he unplugged that little wire at the solonoid and put light at female end and still got NO Power. I need to get this fixed being carless is AWFUL. Hope you have some New and Good ideas! Also (in case... how on earth do you get a starter off of this thing? I swear I cant get to that top bolt.....ughhh not even the manuels help)
ANSWER: Hi Cherry,
I am not sure what you mean by the relay box 'thingy', but if the starter relay clicks (feel/listen) when you try the start position of the ignition switch then the points inside the relay are burned, or the brown wire from the relay to the starter solenoid is open or shorted to ground. Fuse 23 is needed to both cause the relay to click and the power from the relay points to the sarter, but it also is drawn upon by many other circuit in the 'run' position and the accessory position of the switch but they are all fused except for the wire to the body control module. So if the fuse is blown and it blows when you just turn the key to run, then it os one of those other circuits, not the relay to starter circuit that is the problem. Fuse 10 in the power box under the dash is needed by the starter relay to activate it, so if 23 is ok, then check fuse 10 under the dash.
The starter relay is the fifth from the rear of the box, and the front pin in its socket should always be 'hot' if fuse 23 is good, and the driver side pin should be 'hot' when you turn the key to 'start' if fuse 10 is good. If that checks out, then try switching out the relay with another one of the same part number. The brown wire goes from the rear pin of the socket to the solenoid on the motor. If the fuses are good, and the relay is good, and it still doesn't click, then the wire from the inboard pin to the pcm, the wire P/N safetu circuit or the pcm itself is bad.
So try these troubleshoots tests and let me know what you find.
Roland
Cherry wrote at 2011-08-30 11:11:51
Roland,
Thank You for answering even with delay! OK, all relays... EATX, ASD FUEL, and Starter have now been replaced. All fuses are good as well. Have also replaced Battery but nothing. We did read an old post of yours where you had explained how to jumper the starter and we were able to do this from the 30 to 86 pin on starter relay however; when we did the van began cranking and did so continuously until the relay was pulled out and the key was in my Pocket. Without the jumper.... nothing. We also ran only a ground to each of the (starter, eatx, fuel,and the asd) relays and ground of battery all at one time just to see... and the van did crank but not start. the Brown wire to the solonoid has 12v on it. I didnt see the place to Nominate You but I've been stalking the forum trying to get this thing fixed so I WILL FIND IT! Thanks For Your Time
Hi Cherry,
I just found your response in the 'reader comments' sections which does not otherwise get sent to me by the Allexperts site. So don't use that approach again. Rather ask a follow-up question or if that goes its limit then ask a new question. Then when you get a notice that I have answered look at that, not at the listing of q and a at the home page. I notice that you didn't directly read my answer when you were sent a email from the site telling you that I had done so.
What is the present situation? I can well imagine that if you purposely activate relays that most things will run and yet the engine won't start because there are many other things that are needed such as spark and fuel injector pulsing that depend upon the engine computer to be active and getting all the info it needs to operate these other systems.
Have you ever tried to get fault codes? Turn the key:"on-off-on-off-on and leave on" doing that in 5 seconds or less elapsed time. Then watch the odometer window to see if any 4-digit numbers preceded by a P appear in place of the mileage reading. Let me know.
I really don't have a clear picture of exactly what happens when you try to start the engine. When you turn the key to 'run' do you hear the fuel pump humm inside the fuel tank for about 1 second? Do the warning lights and gauges on the cluster come to 'life'?
When you turn the key to 'start' does the starter motor crank the engine? If not, does the starter relay click (touch or listen closely for that). Does the starter itself click?
Is there 12V on the brown wire while you have the key in the start position?
Have you checked the wire that runs from the +post of the battery to the starter motor (Don't deal with this wire without first diconnecting the - clamp from the battery as you can get a serious burn if you ground the red wire when it has power from the battery connected to it).
Roland
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QUESTION: Roland,
I have tried unsucessfully many times to get the codes using the on-off-on-off-leave on method..but to No avail nothing shows up. When I try to start the van, all I hear is a soft clicking coming from the relays... I had my daughter turn the key while I felt the relays and it seems to be the starter relay clicking. (i have replaced this and many other relays) The van does not crank unless I ground Each relay independantly. The starter does not click and there is No hum or any sound from the fuel pump. The warning lights, guages and cluster all light up in on position and after the 5th ding of the the alarm set light stays on. The large Red wire running from the + post of battery to the starter shows 12.64 volts according to my neighbor (i'm not real clear on how to read the meter) There is also 12.24 volts on the Brown wire at attempted start.
Cherry
ANSWER: Hi Cherry,
Thanks for the clarification of how things stand, and for the very kind remarks.
On the fault code readout with the ignition switch, it does appear that is not available in the '98 or '99 minivans, but was available in the '97 and earlier and the '02 and later (I am unsure about the '00 and '01 models). That means that a code reader is needed to be plugged into the socket under the dash by the steering column to get codes. But in any case the starter has to be activated before anything else.
Because you have verified that there is power on the brown wire at the starter when the 'start' position of the key is activated, and that there similarly there is power to the starter motor on the fat red wire, then with a good battery also the only possible reason for no loud click from the starter itself is either that the engine ground wire to the battery - clamp is loose or open OR that the starter solenoid switch (and thus the starter) need to be replaced, The grounding wire is black in color and is bolted to the rear of the engine cylinder block just next to the end of the valve cover that is facing the front of the vehicle. So check that the bolt is tight and that the wires themselves are in good condition and are attached at their far end to the - clamp of the battery and are not corroded there. If the ground looks good (and that can tested for continuity by your neighbor) then you would need to replace the starter motor unit.
You would do that by disconnecting the - post clamp of the battery, then jack up the vehicle and support on a stand, then disconnect the brown wire and the red wire from the starter motor, then remove the bolts that hold the starter to the engine (note there is a spacer between the motor and engine mounting point that has to be retained for reuse on the replacement motor. Then get the motor rebuilt at a shop or buy a good quality rebuilt motor and install it which is the reverse process to what I described for removal.
Then see if the starter will work and whether the engine will run. Let me know how it goes.
Roland
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QUESTION: Roland,
Have now got a brand new starter installed complete with spacers and still no crank or start. (The relays were all replaced in the previous weeks and) I have had battery checked again and it is putting out 12.5 volts. The starter still has no click when we turn the key to the on position all we are hearing is a clicking from the starter relay and the lights inside the van still come on. We also tried starting in R, and D but nothing. The ground wire seems to be good, showing no corrosion or looseness. I am perplexed lol. Thanks again for your help.
Cherry
AnswerHi Cherry,
OK, lets start and go backwards. Because you know how the starter is wired up, try jumping a wire from the post where the brown wire attaches to the starter motor over to the fat red wire where it attaches to the starter motor nearby . Be very careful as you are dealing directly with the battery. So attach the wire first to the brown wire's post (remove the brown wire first from the post so you have a place to attach the jumper), then merely touch the other end of the the jumper to the fat red wire's post. The starter should respond instantly. In not, then either the fat red wire is not well-connected to the battery, the battery - post clamp or its wires to the chassis are not well connected, the engine ground wire to the - clamp is bad, or the starter motor is no good.
If the starter motor does respond, and you say that when you try the key in the 'start' position and that the start relay clicks, and the front pin of the starter relay shows 12v at all times, and you have a new starter relay, then the brown wire is flaky. If any of the other things aren't as I described then let me know.
That is the basics of the starter circuit.
Roland
