QuestionThe system wouldn't let me as an additional question, so
I am adding the original question information below: __________________________________________________________________
QUESTION: Roland,
I have a 1994 Plymouth Grand Voyage that stalls after running for a while. Yesterday, I put a can of Seafoam in the tank and added about 5 gallons of gas. I then drove the van about 20 miles before it began to miss and/or lose power. I got back home after driving about 25 miles. I removed and plugged the vacuum hose on the fuel pressure regulator to see if there was a change in RPM's when the vacuum was blocked. There was an increase in RPM's so I assume the vacuum is working at the fuel pressure regulator. I then pulled the van into the garage and it stalled. I checked the codes and has a code 42. Could messing with the above vaccine hose cause code 42 for the ASD Relay? This problem has been occurring for some time. It was in a garage for a long time and the problem was never fixed. I have replaced plugs, air filter, cleaned the throttle body as best I could and cleaned other components. The problem is much better now as it doesn't stall consistently like it did before. Like I said
earlier, I drove the van about 20 miles with everything working ok before it seemed to begin missing every once in a while. Can a parts store test the relays to see if they are failing, especially since it takes a while for whatever is failing to heat up and begin to fail? Any recommendations you can make are greatly appreciated. Several components were changed at the garage but didn't fix the problem. My changing the relays around, replacing the PCV and cleaning components as best I could and adding the Seafoam have greatly improved the problem. What is the best way to resolve the code 42 error when it takes driving for a while before the vehicle starts to occasionally miss or lose power or whatever? Do I need to talk to a garage with a scanner to see if they can hook the scanner up once the problem begins after heating up? The garage that I have used forever doesn't have all the expensive test equipment to determine an intermittent failing problem like I am having. Would you
recommend a Dodge dealership? I you want to correspond by e-mail I will document any resolution in great detail to help save you any time I can.
Thanks,
Lee
ANSWER: Hi Lee,
If you haven't tried switching out the ASD relay with another one that has the same part number try that.
The ASD output circuit uses a 15 amp fuse in the power distribution center labelled 'eng' or 3/4 so check to see that it doesn't have a subtle crack in its internal wire. The actuation of the ASD needs 15 amp fuse #16 in the fuse box under the dash so check it similarly and it also need a good connection inside the ignition switch which might be oxidized and need to to be sprayed with circuit board cleaner. Of course the ASD also requires solid engine rotation position sensors and one of those may be getting flaky when the engine warms up but not so bad as to set a code 11 or code 54 as yet. Those often begin to fail when heated, then recover as they cool down. But I would wait a bit to see if you actually get such a code before changing either. Those are the most likely reasons for a code 42.
Have you checked the function of the exhaust gas recirculation valve? Its stem may be sticking in the ajar position which cause a too lean mixture at idle/acceleration. Spray some WD-40 on the stem where it enters the body of the valve and then work the stem back and forth using a screwdriver tip inserted into the slot of the stem. Spring-action should close it to a dead stop.
So look into those possibilities before going into a shop.
If you do a follow-up question let me know which engine (L) you have.
Roland
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: It is a 3.3L engine.
ANSWER: Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Roland,
1. I swapped the Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay and that didn't help.
2. The following 15amp fuses were somewhat dirty but had no cracks:
IGN OFF DRAW
ENGINE SYSTEM
TRANS SYSTEM
AIR COND CLUTCH
FUEL PUMP
I cleaned all the above fuses with steel wool.
These were in the Power Distribution Center next to the Battery.
3. The following were check and cleaned in the fuse box under the dash:
10amp fuse for ABS Controller, Engine Controller, Fuel Pump Relay,
Trans. Controller, Auto Shutdown Relay, Radiator
Fan Relay, Back-up Lamp Relay, and A/C Clutch Relay.
10amp fuse for Airbag, Back-up Lamp Relay, Engine Controller, etc.
30amp fuse for Blower Motor
I cleaned all the above fuses with steel wool and they were all good.
I will clean all the other fuses once I get this thing running well.
4. Shot circuit board cleaner in the ignition switch.
5. The exhaust gas recirculation valve is encloses so I couldn't spray
WD40 on the stem. I could blow into the diafram inlet and air wouldn't
go thru. I could suck on the diafram inlet and hear the diafram move.
Is there a way to test EGR?
6. I removed the Automatic Idle Speed (AIS) motor and the was extended
and wouldn't compress. The mechanic that worked on the van said that
you should be able to push the plunger of the AIS but it doesn't move.
However, it isn't throwing an error code. Does this appear to be a
problem?
That's all the information I currently have.
Awaiting your thoughts and recommendations.
Thanks !! I really, really appreciate your help,
Lee
Answer:
Hi Lee,
On the egr, if you look at the flange between the valve body and the vacuum actuator you should see hidden there the stem with a slot in it. The tip of a screwdriver inserted in the stem will allow you to test the 'action'.
I believe the AIS will not move easily but rather has to be 'driven' electrically.
I am not clear about what happens when you stall. Does it die promptly and then instantly start up again or do you have to wait before it will catch and idle? Or is there some other scenario?
Is it when you are slowing down, accelerating, idling, or running at a steady speed that is dies?
You could set up the crank and cam sensor signal and ground wires with pin probes so that when it stalls you can immediately check the pulsing that is expected of them. The signal should oscillate between 5 and 0.3V as you turn the engine over by hand with a socket/handle on the crank pulley bolt. That way you might catch a failing sensor 'in the act' as it were.
Roland
Please do not respond to this message.
Thanks,
Allexperts.com
Followup Question __________________________________________________________________
Roland,
The system would not allow me to ask another followup question, so I copied all the previous question text above.
1. For the EGR, I only took to top part of the EGR off and
cleaned it. After your last reply, I went online and found
that the vaccuum hoses connected to another part of the EGR
which has the stem that may be sticking. I will remove that
part tonight and clean and free up any sticking.
2. Initially, the van stalled whenever you stopped the vehicle
and maybe when turning but you usually decellerate while in
a turn. After completing some of the above tasks, the van
stalls very seldom and almost always when coming to a stop.
However, while driving, I can detect that something is
breaking down somewhat. I can tell that the enging briefly
begins to stall or miss but recovers pretty quickly.
Hopefully, after cleaning the EGR stem tonight, the problem
will be resolved. I don't have any test probes or other
test equipment. I have a place that hopefully can quickly put
a scanner on once it starts to break down.
Roland, I have always liked to do all the maintenance on my vehicles that I can. I periodically get under them and make sure that nothing is leaking, make sure bolts are tight, etc. However, because of all the different emission and other electronic quipment, I don't really know how best to maintain them. I change oil, filters, brake fluid and plugs on schedule but usually wait for other components to fail before replacing them. The van had 166,000 miles and I have never had to replace any of the emission control components. The oxygen sensor and catalytic convertor
are original as well as AIS. I had to have the transmission worked on because of a seal leaking fluid badly but have had little major problems. I have replaced the water pump, thermostats and other minor things but nothing that I have been cleaning and checking into with this stalling condition we have been experiencing. Would you recommend that the oxygen sensor or other components be replaced now or wait until they cause a problem. They could be causing the stall problem but no error codes are being thrown. After checking and cleaning the fuses all error codes including the 42 that I was getting are gone. If I can resolve the stalling issue I don't mind replacing some of the components. But if I can't get the stalling resolved we will probably replace the van.
Any recommendations or comments you have are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Lee
AnswerHi Lee,
I would believe that the egr valve is sticking slightly ajar and causing the stalling you describe, which may be remedied by loosening up its action with WD-40 on the stem and moving it back and forth as described. I would not change anything about the 02 sensors without a code, nor the catalytic converter without an incdication of failure on a smog test or sign of rattling of the honeycomb.
Roland
