QuestionQUESTION: I have a 1996 Plymouth Breeze 2.0 engine, automatic with 122,000 miles. I am having a problem with it stalling out of the blue while driving with no warning what so ever. Once it stalls, it seems like that when i try to start it right after that, it won't start and all it will do is just turn over and does not fire while turning over at all, no matter how long you turn it over. Now i have at times let it set for about 5 minutes and then try to start it again and it will start and i will continue driving with it being fine, or sometimes i have had to wait 15 or 20 minutes and it will start up again. Now i have tried to use the trouble code with the engine light and i get 2 different codes that blink/appear...The way that it flashes is 1 pause, 2 pause (Which tells me that's 12) which is the battery disconnected in the last 50 key-on cycles, which does make sense because i have had my battery recently disconnected to see if that makes any difference or not and the 2nd code is 1 pause, 1 pause (Which tells me that's 11) which in my 1996 Plymouth Breeze Haynes book says "Intermittent loss of crankshaft and/or camshaft position sensor signals to PCM"...then the last code is 5 pause, 5 pause which says that's the completion of the fault code display on the check engine light. Now when the car is starting and seems to be fine, i will do the trouble code with the engine light and still get the same codes as if it is not starting. Sometimes the car will run perfectly for 3, 4 days...even up to a week at times with no problems at all, then other times it will happen approximately every day or every other day for an example. I am still driving the car daily, but obviously i have no idea at all when this will happen and then i have to wait until it wants to start again. I have checked the fire by pulling a spark-plug out and leaving the plug wire on and turning the car over and when the car won't start, i am not getting any fire. Do you have any opinions, thoughts, or problems it might be or even some type of self diagnostics i could personally do? Obviously i'm thinking that it could be the crankshaft sensor or the camshaft sensor...or could it be both? Also, i'm encountering the car going in and out of "Limp-mode"...would this be tied in to part of the firing problem as well? Again, any thoughts at all would be highly appreciated so i can try to avoid having a huge labor bill at a garage while they try and trouble-shoot the problem. Thank-you very much for your time.
Dennis
ANSWER: Note the corrected location for the crankshaft sensor
Hi Dennis,
I suspect it is the crankshaft position sensor because the cam sensor usually is a code 54. If you want to test the sensor you can check the signal by putting pins through the wires at the engine controller when it is not working and measuring the voltage as you turn the engine over by hand via the bolt on the crank pulley. You would normally see the voltage pule several times per revolution between 5.0 and 0.3V, with the ignition switch in the run position. When it fails you would no longer see the pulsing. Look between pins 43 and 32 to see the voltage pulsing or not.
But the fail/restart after a short wait period is also typical for the hall effect sensor used in both the sensors. The codes are stored unless you disconnect the battery which will of course leave you with a code 12. The crank sensor is on the side of the block, behind the generator ans just above the oil filter. Leave the paper spacer on the tip of the sensor when you install it, and hold it so the tip is in contact with the metal surface inside the hole and tighten the retaining screw while it is in that position. The paper is worn away as the flex plate edge with which it is in contact rubs on it, leaving the proper gap.
The limp mode would be best diagnosed vie a code readout using a plug-in reader which you can get done at an Autozone or similar nationwide parts store, often for free. Let me know the 4 digit code numbers and we can go from there. The check engine light only decodes engine faults.
It is not related to the engine problem.
Roland
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QUESTION: Hi Roland.....I went and got a plug-in reading on the limp-mode issue.....The code is P0765 which the device said is a shift solenoid.....Can you comment anymore on this and also is this the same as a transmission solenoid?.....The auto store i went to, they said they do not list a shift solenoid, but they do list a transmission solenoid and he wasn't sure if the two are the same or not and also thought that it might be a dealer item.....Thank-you again Roland.
AnswerHi Dennis,
It is good that you got a readout.
The 'shift solenoid' is a short hand for one or more of the 4 clutch solenoid electrical circuits centered in the 'solenoid pack', located in the box on the front side of the transmission, not responding properly to on-going electrical testing that the tcm routinely conducts on them. Most likely one or more is bad, or there is a problem in the wire of one or more of the solenoids between the pack and the tcm. So look over the harness between the trans solenoid pack plug and the tcm to find any signs of damaged wires or insulation. Also check that pins 53 and 57 at the tcm read a dead short to ground as they should. If that checks out, then I would suggest replacing the solenoid pack, which you can do yourself by removing the forward speed sensor (located above the box, unscrew it, re-tighten like a spark plug when installing), then the cover of the box, then the solenoid pack itself which has 3 vertical bolts that hold it in place (tighten bolts to 9 foot-pounds). The only other possiility is a bad tcm, but that is less likely the cause, particularly with this being the only code.
Roland
