QuestionQUESTION: My name is Keith - with the sebring that won't start. You mentioned to check the distributor wires for voltage - does that mean I have to take the plenum off to get at the distributor. If so can I leave the plenum off to crank it over and do diagnostics?
thanks a Million!!!!!!!
keith
ANSWER: Hi Keith,
What we are trying to determine is whether the automatic shut down relay is being activated by the pcm (which it will only do if the 2 sensors are working) and we do that by looking for voltage to come out of the ASD on a dark green/orange wire that goes to the distributor spark coil primary, the field coil of the generator, and the heated oxygen sensors. If it is putting out 12V compared to chassis ground there is another place where you would find it: fuse #1 in the power distribution center under the hood which is in the middle of the front row in that box. That fuse is sending the 12v to the oxygen sensors. So just crank the engine over and observe whether or not you are see 12v for at least 5 seconds of cranking on that fuse. We can assume if the dark green/orange wire to the distributor directly from the ASD is not damaged, which is connected to the same splice and goes instead to the diestributor. that it too will have 12v. So forget about trying to get to the distributor plugs.
Similarly, if it only shows 12v for 1-2 seconds, then you would check out the cam and crank sensor pulsing at the pcm pins that I referenced earlier. To do that you will need to use some fine pins to probe through the insulation of the wires so as to contact the conductor proper of each wire that you need check out. Thus there is no need to deal with the distributor access problem.
Roland
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QUESTION: I'm not for sure what I'm getting on fuse #1 but if I had to guess I only getting 12v for about 1 sec or less. I've checked the crankshaft sensor and it is pulsing but the cam I'm not sure. I think I need to take the plenum off to get to that wire. But isn't the cam sensor part of the distributor which is brand new? I'm afraid I'm not accomplishing much - other then getting frustrated. This morning it started after being charged over night - but literally 2 minutes later no starting??
thanks,
keith
ANSWER: Hi Keith,
The ASD will cut off the 12V after 1-2 seconds of cranking when it isn't getting the proper signals from both the crank and the cam (yes, in the distributor) sensors. I guess the options are to verify the crank and cam sensor signals as I described, but doing so at the wires of the pcm plug. That way it is more accessible, and you also verify that the signal is or isn't getting to the pcm. One or the other of those signal is not reliable if I understand you to be saying that it will start and run briefly and then not at all and further that the ASD is cutting off. That is how I would read it. But then again you say you aren't getting any codes which may mean the pcm itself is not functioning as it should. So I would look at the sensor signals, but even before you do that try switching the ASD with one of the other relays in the power box that has the same part number. It may be the relay is bad. If that doesn't prove to be the case, then check for sensor signals, and if those are present then you have to consider replacing the pcm.
Roland
PS: If you aren't getting 5 flashes, 5 flashes from your check engine light when you use the ignition key to get codes, then there is something wrong with the light (does it stay 'on') or the pcm. You said 'no codes' but you didn't say whether there was an indication that the pcm was communincating to the check engine light or the code reader. So let me know if there is no positive indication that you indeed have 'no codes'.
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QUESTION: The check engine light comes on when I use the ignition switch to get the codes but doesn't flash at all - it goes off on the third turn of the switch when trying to get codes. I had a guy come over on Sat night who used to work at a car diagnostics shop and within about 20 minutes he pointed to the pcm and said that was the culprit. Due to a process of elimination and from what I hear you saying - the pcm is a very real possibility.
I haven't run out a bought a pcm yet - what are your thoughts on a used one vs. a remanufactured one or even an OEM one? I can get a used one at a u-pull-it place for about $75 (no warranty I'm sure) or a used one from LKQ parts with a 90 day warranty or I found a reman one for $250.
AnswerHi Keith,
A used one with a warranty is probably the more economic choice. I would check the pull-it-yourself yard to see if they will give you a warranty on one that you pull. Be sure it is from the same model year and engine. Please let me know if that solves it.
Roland
Roland - keith with the 98 sebring convertible - got a different pcm, but same shit different day. Although at one time it actually acted like it wanted to start but may have been flooded - ideas
How about check engine light/fault codes with the 'new' pcm? Are you getting spark? Have you checked the egr valve to see if it might be stuck ajar?
Roland
