QuestionQUESTION: Hi Roland
Yes the spirit is throttle body 2.5 non flex-fuel engine.
When we disconected the battery and reset the fault codes
we started hearing the fuel pump kick on for a second when we turned on the key, but we still are'nt getting 12 volts
to the coil in the run or start position not even for a second. The new fault codes are 12 and 55
ANSWER: Hi Justin,
Fault codes 12 and 55 are unremarkable.
If you are getting the fuel pump to kick on now, then that means the engine controller is doing its job of activating the fuel pump relay, and so too the same wire is supposed to activate the ASD relay which will then give you the 12V on the dark green/orange wire at the coil (- post), the fuel injector same color wire at the throttle body, and the generator dark blue wire, all for 1 second, just like the fuel pump. Then it should come back when you start cranking. If not, then the ASD relay may not be working (listen for it to click, if it doesn't then borrow another similar relay if there is one that is not crucial to running the engine or buy a replacement and try it; if it does click then check whether it puts out 12v on its dark green/orange wire at the relay socket for 1 second, if it does then look for a 10-pin connector behind the battery that is black in color and make sure that it is not unplugged because if it were that would cut the power to the coil, and also verify that there is continuity from the - post of the coil to dark green/orange at the ASD relay).
There has to be a bad relay or a disconnect involved in not getting 12V to the - post of the coil for even that 1 second.
Roland
History
QUESTION: Hi Roland
I'm not getting any spark on my 94 dodge spirit. I checked
the coil to see if I was gettin 12 volts on the coil and I'm not. I figure it was a fusable link or the ignition switch could you shed any light on my problem.
ANSWER: Hi Justin,
A lack of voltage on the coil means that the autoshutdown relay is not being energized when you crank the engine. Just to verify, listen (when you turn the ignition switch to the run position, before trying the starter) for the fuel pump in the tank to run for about a second. If it does then that means the circuit to the relay is OK. It further suggests that you probably have a bad sensor in the distributor, called a hall-effect sensor. The way to find out for sure is to do a self-readout for fault codes stored in the engine control module. Turn the ignition switch:"on-off-on-off-on and leave on" doing that in 5 seconds or less elapsed time. Then watch the check engine light which remains "on" to begin to flash, pause, flash, etc. Count the number flashes before each pause. Then repeat to assure accuracy. Then combine the counts in pairs to form the two digit fault codes. The last code is always 55 which means end of readout. Then go to www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html for a code translation. 2.5L engine will have a code 11 if the sensor is bad. There are two sensors in the 3.0L engine which would cause an 11 or a 54 code if one were bad.
If you get a different code, or you don't hear the fuel pump then let me know and we can go with a different analysis.
Roland
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QUESTION: Hi Roland
I got a 12,11,14 and 55 on the fault code in that order.
I also didn't hear the fuel pump.
ANSWER: I have to assume that you have the 2.5L engine. The 11 code is then saying that the signal from the sensor in the distributor is absent. No doubt the sensor is bad unless you find the wiring harness has been damaged. Get a new ignition timing sensor (hall effect sensor) and install it. Just remove the distributor cap and rotor and the retaining screws on the plate and substitute the new plate. No need to remove the distributor, just the cap and rotor. On the 14 that means your map sensor voltage is off-value (too high or too low). It is mounted on the right side shock tower and has a vacuum hose and wires attached to it. Check both: make sure the wires haven't been burned thru the insulation due to the high heat coming off the exhaust manifold. And make sure that the vacuum hose connection all the way from the sensor to the intake manifold is not cracked or disconnected. If it looks to be good, then a new MAP sensor would be appropriate as well. The fuel pump should start working again; remember it just lasts for 1 second if you don't move the key on to the starter position. Check for 12V at the red/white wire at the ASD relay socket, it should be there all the time. And check for 12V at the dark blue wire at the same socket, it should be there when the ignition key is in the run and starter positions. Let me know if you don't find those voltages to be present. The ASD relay is the front-most on on the left inner fender shield.
The 12 code is irrelevant unless you have not disconnected the battery in the past few months. Let me know otherwise.
Let me know how it goes.
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QUESTION: Hi Roland
Yes I do have the 2.5. We replaced the hall effect sensor
and the map sensor. We also have 12 volts at the asd socket
on the red and white, and the blue wire. We do'nt hear the fuel pump and the coil is still not getting 12 volts. I
also checked for burnt wiring and rotted hoses. Is there
a possibility it could be the ignition switch.
Answer: When you say you don't hear the fuel pump and you don't get 12v at the coil, is that true even for 1 second after you put the ignition to the "run" position? Check that and let me know. Also measure when you are cranking and let me know about the 12V at the coil.
How about fault codes: remove the - post clamp from the battery for a couple of minutes to erase all the old codes. Then try to start it again and see what new codes you get other than a 12 (battery disconnected recently).
The main wire out of the ignition switch in the run and the start position is the dark blue which you verify has 12V so it is not the ignition switch.
The fuel pump is operated by a relay (the innermost one on the left shock tower). It's socket is set up like the ASD relay and that relay too is activated by the dark blue/yellow wire from pin 51 of the engine control module. That is the wire that when grounded by the controller will send 12V to the - post of the coil and to the fuel pump. It should do that automatically for 1 second when you turn the switch to run, and it should do it while you are cranking, and it should do it if the engine is running.
So trace and measure that out and let me know.
I assume you have the throttle body 2.5L engine non-flex fuel engine.
Roland
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QUESTION: Hi Roland
I went to buy the relay but the auto part store had nothing
listed as an ASD relay, Is there another name for it?
Answer
Hi Justin,
How about "automatic shutdown relay" or "fuel injector/spark coil" relay (which are the two items that it actually powers?
I think you might find upon inspection that one of the other relays is identical in part number to that ASD relay and as long as it isn't essential for starting then why not just swap out for the A/C clutch, radiator fan, etc. relay and see if that gets you some spark so as to show whether it was or wasn't the relay that is at fault? Did you hear it click or not? Do you get 12v on the dark green/orange wire after it clicks on? I would hate to see you get the new relay and find that you still get no spark.
Roland
