QuestionQUESTION: Hi Roland
The problem started about a month ago after we had the left passenger wheel bearing changed and the oil changed. The car would stall sometimes when slowing down and turning the wheel to take a corner. It would start back up right away. Then it started stalling when it came to a stop but only during the day when it was hot. It took about 5-10 min's to start back up. The car would run fine if it wasn't hot during the day or at night. We took it to a mechanic, he couldn't get any codes but said it sounded like the crankshaft sensor was the problem. He changed it but the next day it did the same thing. We brought it back and he said it probably needed a new computer. Well we spent over $1200 2 years ago for a new distributor and computer for a previous no start problem when it turned out to be only a broken wire. We decided to look for a new car, we took the car and drove it all over and put over 100 miles on it. After that the car did not stall even on very hot days for about 2 weeks. Then we went out one morning and the car was hard to start. My husband noticed he couldn't hear the fuel pump kick on for a few seconds after turning the key on. So instead of cranking the car we just kept turning the key on and off till we heard the fuel pump then started it. We thought it was the fuel pump so instead of getting a new one installed my husband got a used one from a sebring in the junk yard that was in an accident. Same problem. I tried getting codes using on-off-on-off-on . Got a 12 + 55 from your forum the 12 means the battery had been disconnect which it was for the fuel pump replacement and 55 signals the end of the code. The next thing we tried to was to change the fuel pump relay which came from the junk sebring. Same problem. We have a friend that works in a parts store so we checked with him to see how much a new fuel pump relay would cost. He had some kind of codes for each part that said if it was likely to fail I guess they use them for ordering. The codes go from 1 to 8 with 1 being fails frequently and 8 seldom. Well the fuel pump relay was an 8 and the oil pressure sensor was a 1 and was only $10 so he suggested to try that. This made sense because I read that the sensor shuts the fuel pump off if the pressure is low. He took the car to a friend who has a lift cuz he couldn't get to it. The wire to the sensor fell off when he touched it ,the metal male plug end broke right off. Well we thought that was it all along because the sensor is so close to the fuel filter it probably got bumped and the problem started after a fuel oil change. After, the car started every time and was running great again. About a week and 1/2 later I park the car at the train station. When I came back the next day it won't start again. But this time not all the lights came on, only the seat belt,SRS,oil pressure and antilock. After about half an hour of turning the key on and off all the lights came on and I heard the fuel pump,it started and I got home but its still doing the same thing. At first I couldn't get any codes cuz the check engine light wasn't even coming on, but once it did all I got was code 55. I've tried moving the shift lever like you suggested in other post but still doesn't work. If you keep turning the key enough times all the lights come on the fuel pump clicks on and the car will start and staying running.. Sorry this is so long, maybe everything that has happened doesn't mean anything but maybe it will help. What do you think-Gremlins?
ANSWER: Hi Suzanne,
I will focus on the most recent problem, except to mention that I don't believe the oil pressure sender has anything to do with the fuel pump. AFAIK tell that sender just operates the light, and there is no communication between it and the powertrain controller which would be necessary to turn off the fuel pump relay.
It appears now that one of the four separate sections in your ignition switch that connects battery power to the electrical system in the "run" position of the key is not making good contact. Unfortunately that is about a 15 step process to get to with some illustrations so I can't practically type it in. But once you get to it you could apply some electrical circuit cleaner from a spray can (available at electronics supply stores) thru any opening in the switch assembly so as to clean the interior contact surfaces. If that doesn't work, then changing the switch would be in order. That is the only 'gremlin' I can see to explain this given that not only does the pump not activate but also the lights on the cluster are not completely present. The only other possibility is that you have had some water intrusion (due to convertible leakage) that has gotten on the body controller (located on the rear of the under dash fuse panel) and that can also cause gremlins, but those are usually more related to the body electricals not the engine.
Let me know via the "thank and rate" tab what your postal mailing address is and I'll xerox and postal mail you the pages that show how to access the switch.
Thanks so much for that detailed history. I will let you know if I see any other possibilities but this most recent one seems to be the most important to deal with.
Roland
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QUESTION: Hi Roland
Thanks for the quick response. I got the Chilton repair manual from the library and it has the instructions for removing the ignition switch so I don't need a copy but thankyou. My husband doesn't know if he wants to tackle anything that has an airbag associated with it. So he might just bring it in to have it checked. I will let you know if that was the problem but it might be a while if we bring it to a mechanic. Do you think we ruined the ignition switch with all the on+off we had to do to start the car? The reason I thought it was the oil pressure sensor is cuz on the AUTOZONE website under repair info-Product and how to info-Oil pressure switch it says: In later model cars, if the oil pressure drops, the switch turns off the fuel pump, to stop the engine and limit damage to internal parts. Maybe this car doesn't do that.
Thanks again and I will let you know the outcome
ANSWER: Hi Suzanne,
The airbag issue is not relevant. There is no possibility of that getting into play when seeking out the ignition switch to test/replace it. You start by disconnecting the battery.
If he wants to check out the possibility he could locate the dark green/red, dark blue, black/white, and black/orange wires and see if all of them have 12v on them when the switch is in the run position (and of course the battery connected). He could check the wires coming out of the column to see if those could be found. (If he can't find the wires that way, then he would need to get to the switch and check them at the plug-ins of the switch). If all four wires show 12V then that is not the solution. Of course this would be appropriate only when the car wouldn't start. By the way, I assume you have a starter motor function, and that the engine just will not catch and run, correct?
That oil switch detail may apply to other vehicles, but I don't see it in the wiring diagram for the '97 Sebring. Let me know what you do and how it works out.
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QUESTION: Hi Roland
We brought the car in on wed and had the ignition switch changed. Picked it up on thurs and it started everytime. This morning the same light situation and no start the first time, second time it started. Later it took about 5 turns to start. And yes the engine does turn over but will not catch. Any ideas?
ANSWER: Hi Joanne,
I have a couple of questions:
Can you tell me exactly what you mean by the "same light situation", specifically which lights do come on at the instrument cluster, and which ones that should don't come on when you then find it won't start (list all you can, and please tell me what 'SRS' is the acronym for)? And how about the fuel pump: do you hear it run for a second in the run position each time you try it to start it and is it always humming now?
Because you have a reliable (new) ignition switch we'll leave that out of our consideration. So I think we need to look for a flaky fuse or wire that is intermittent. Is there anything else that is different that you notice between when it will or won't start? I have the '98 wiring diagrams so we should get somewhere with this,
I'll try to be available up till 10 pm CDT today so keep checking until you find me to be available.
Roland
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QUESTION: Hi Roland
The lights that come on when the car won’t start are the seatbelt warning light, SRS-Supplemental restraint system, Oil pressure warning light, and the Antilock braking system light, and I do not hear the fuel pump click on. When it will start all the previous lights come on and also the brake warning light, Check engine light, charging system warning light and the cruise control indicator light. When all these come on I hear the fuel pump turn on then off. Once the car is running I really can’t hear the fuel pump anymore.
AnswerHi Joanne,
There are two ideas I have. First, in the power distribution center box under the hood there are three fuses that provide power to the powertrain and body computers and so if one of those fuses has a fatigue crack in its conducting wire it will be flaky: sometimes conducting sometimes behaving like it is blown. You could take a look at them inspecting the wire for any signs of a crack. Two are 20 amp and one is 10 amp so another thing to do is just replace them, or switch them out with other fuses of the same size in the box (there are 2 other 10's and 6 other 20's and maybe the problem would migrate to some other circuit if you did the switch but at least you would be on the right track. Just note where the original fuses were switched into so you can follow exactly what is going on). Second, look at fuse 11 in the fuse box under the dash as when it is out the brake warning lamp will not work and it also provides power to the body controller and instrument cluster. It could be similarly cracked. It is 10 amps as well so either switch or replace it as above even if it looks good.
I wonder secondly if you still are getting no fault codes?
As far as the lights that work and the ones that don't, it is fairly consistent that the ones that do are simply controlled by a single grounding switch and a supply voltage from a fuse. The others are mediated by the digital data bus system that shares information between all three computers. The only "wringer" is the seat belt warning lamp which shouldn't work as well (at least according to the '98 diagrams) along with the other that don't work. So fuses that power the digital data bus, like the three I mentioned first are the reason for looking at those carefully. Fuses 8 and 10 are also needed for the fuel pump!
Let me know what you find. I'll go "maxed" in a half hour, but get back to me tomorrow when I reset my availability.
Roland
