QuestionQUESTION:
Hello, My girlfreind contacted you and talked about problems with this car(she said it was a 99 Chrysler LHS but its a 97), Im the one working on it. It started out that the battery kept dying, then the seats and power locks quit working. Then the headlights quit working, I got them working again after I found a short in the wiring going to the switch from the fuses. Now her son came home and said its possessed...when he pulled in the driveway the wipers came on and the heater fan came on in the high position. I went out to check the car out and it starts and runs for a few seconds then quits. It gets fuel, I jumped the relay under the hood to make the pump stay on and it still quits afer about 5 seconds of running. The wipers and blower motor wont shut off unless I pulled the fuse. I checked the seat and power locks relay and there is no power at the fuse box with the key on or off. Not sure if this has anything to do with it but when I checked the oil it was 3 quarts low. Not sure if there was a low oil sensor that may have gone bad with it being so low. I have filled it back to the full mark but it didnt change anything. I disconnected the battery totry to get the ECM to reset itself but that didnt do anything either. Any suggestions or should I find a preist and see if this thing is really possessed???
Any help is appreciated, Jim
P.S. I have a 96 Chrysler Concorde in the drive as a parts car that I can get parts off of so I have back up parts that work, Just dont know what to look for on this thing.
ANSWER: Hi Jim,
I recall the earlier question but would be pleased if you could give me a date approximately that it was asked and answered.
I would set aside the wipers, blower, ( but tell me if it has a digital or conventional control unit), power locks and power seat. They probably have nothing to do with the engine. So I would suggest that you try to get a readout of the memory of the engine controller using the ignition key: on-off-on-off-on and leave on, doing this in 5 seconds or less. Then watch the check engine light to flash,pause, flash etc. count the number of flashes before each pause. Then repeat to verify the counts. Then group the counts in pairs to form two digit numbers that are the fault codes. It could be that the car is set up for OBD-II fault codes, which are four digit, and those numbers if they are available will show up in the odometer window, rather than by the the check engine light. Let me know what you find out. I suspect one of the engine position sensors has gone bad (cam or crank) but a code would be corroborative. Do you have a compression tester? With the history of low pressure you might be concerned that some damage was done that would be reflected in those readings. We'll deal with body stuff after the engine is running.
Roland
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QUESTION: Hello Roland,
To start out yes the vehicle does have the digital controled heater system, Yes I checked the compression and it is all nice and high compression,(around 105+ on all cylinders)and it does have good oil pressure. Now for the bad news, I tested it like you said to do with on off method and when Io it i can hear the fuel pump prime then there is a distinct click from the firewall area and nothing else happens, The check engine light doesnt flash at all nor does anything else. It seems like everything stops function at that point. the air bag light and another light comes on for a second but then the click and they are gone.
Thanks, Jim
ANSWER: Hi Jim,
You told me that the engine will run for 5 seconds and then die. And if that is still the case, then at least the engine computer is working. The check engine light will go off after about 5 seconds with the key in the run position as will the air bag light. So that is not abnormal. The issue is whether you can `% he check engine light to give you any fault codes. A '97 may indeed not be able to do that, in which case you need to either get it to a shop with an OBD-II reader, or an Autozone store for a free readout, or buy such a reader at a parts store/borrow one, and plug it into the 16-pin plug that is under the dash near the steering column and use it to readout the fault codes that way.
The click that you hear is probably the autoshutdown relay opening which will do that normally after a couple of seconds and then it will close again when you start cranking so the fuel and spark power will resume.
That relay is in the power distribution box under the hood but it may be that the sound still is heard in the cabin. Try to find out if indeed that is the source of the click or is it something else. The ASD will make such a click and so this may be absolutely normal. What you need is the fault codes, one way or another, to figure out why the engine is dying after 5 seconds. You are probably hindered by the fact that it is not your car so you don't know what is normal and what is abnormal in terms of clicks and lights. If it won't now even run the starter motor, then the battery probably needs to be recharged.
Roland
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Hello Roland,
I went and picked up a OBD II scanner from auto zone yesterday, hooked it up and nothing happened.the unit wouldnt power up. Did as the book said and checked for power to the 16 pin port and there is no power anywhere. So Im guessing we are getting closer to the problem. Is there a main fuse that powers the ECM and this port or do you think I have a short or something disconnected? This car has the console shift with bucket seats, with the seat not functioning I am having a hard time getting under the dash. (im a bigger guy, 6'4" and 350lbs) Im thinking Im going to be taking a front seat out but not sure whick side to start on. Where is the ECM located on this car? So far all your help is truely appreciated.
Thanks again,
JIM
ANSWER: Hi Jim,
Power to the OBD-II socket is on the red/white on pin 8 and it should be present all the time. There are a couple of fuses that need to be good for power to get there: fuse 1 (10 amp) in the junction block under the dash, and fuse C (30 amp) in the power distribution under the hood. So check all those out and let me know what you find. If a fuse keeps blowing we will have to check what circuits are on the fuse and how much resistance they show to ground so we can figure out why the fuse is blowing. I'm working on the assumption that the power distribution center under the hood is rectangular and much longer than it is wide. I'm using a '98 manual which shows a different circuit than the '94 manual but I am not certain which year the changes were made.
Roland
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QUESTION: Hello Roland,
I found a fuse that was blown in the under dash fuse panel, I replaced it and the engine now starts and runs. The blower control now works also from this same fuse. I checked the port for hooking up the OBD II but it still doesnt work, no power yet. I also checked the rest of the fuses on the under dash fuse box and it seems like most of the fuses that arent 10amp do not have power to them at all (except for the wiper fuse). I checked the under hood power relays and fuses and they all have power and all the fuses are working, none blown there. So I still have no power seats, horn, door locks, power mirrors, etc. and the wipers are still on full time if I put the fuse back in. I am pulling the lower dash panel to get access to the fuse box and wiring under the dash to see if i can locate something loose or burnt out. Any other suggestions of what might have gone bad is appreciated.
ANSWER: Hi Jim,
I am pleased to learn that the the engine now starts and runs and that the ATC control works. But I still can't be of much help to you because you didn't tell me whether the power distribution center under the hood is long and narrow in shape or approximately square, so I don't know which set of wiring diagrams to look at. And can you tell me which fuse you replaced to get the engine to run, as this might also help me to ID the wiring diagrams I need to reference for your '97? I am not surprised that many of the fuses under the dash don't have power if you are measuring them for voltage with the ignition switch in the off position. These secondary level fuses often depend upon the ignition switch being in the 'run' position before they get voltage.
So please give me a little more specifics and I can probably be more helpful to you. I just can't get anywhere looking at two possible sets of wiring diagrams. It will just confuse the situation until that is resolved.
Roland
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QUESTION: Hi Roland
Sorry about that. The under hood power box is 5" x 6" and sits on top of the drivers side inner fender. There are 9 relays and 10 fuses, 4-20A 3-30A and 3-40A. The fuse I found that was blown was fuse 17 in the interior fuse panel thats right behind the dash panel just inside the door on the outside(towards the door) on the dash panel. It was a 5A that says Gauges Panel on the cover. I have looked at the fuse block and cant see anything out of place or burnt like its shorted out.
Thanks, JIM
AnswerHi Jim,
Stange gremlin at the Allexpert site: your response was only partial (the new part was missing), but a copy I routinely get by email had your new info. Sorry for the snafu, it was beyond my control.
Thanks for that clarification. It appears that the '97 had the '93 on to '97 wiring layout with some modifications such as OBD-II data plug. So I will avoid the '98 diagrams.
On the power seat and power locks being out of whack, I would look at circuit breaker in position 23 under the dash (also might be labelled F35) to see if it is "open". Then check fuse H under the hood (30 amp) which feeds it. I also notice that the wire color of that circuit is red/white, which also is the wire on pin 8 of the OBD-II plug as I recall, so maybe if that fuse is blown it would also explain why the reader had no power. I don't have that shown in these '94 diagrams, it is just a surmise on my part.
The power seats and power locks both use the circuit breaker and fuse H so I suspect that both will begin to work together at the same time.
The wipers being on all the time have about 6 possible reasons. I would suggest that you start by banging on the relays # 6 and # 10 which control the intermittent and the hi/low speeds. If one of those were stuck closed that would be why you can't shut them off with the switch.
So let me know if any of the above is helpful.
Sorry again for the snafu.
Roland
