QuestionHi. My brother's 1995 Cirrus has a recurring problem that seems to baffle both myself and my mechanic. The car currently has 201,000 miles on the original motor and transmission. The car basically runs fine but every so often the check engine light will come on as well as the ABS light. When these lights are lit, the AC won't engage. When they are not on (usually after just starting it and driving it to work) the AC engages and works fine. This has happened in the past and a previous mechanic said to replace the computer. We did that and shortly after it started to do the same thing. We brought it to another mechanic and he said that he did a diagnostics and his quote was "a whole bunch of codes came up and he didn't want to clear them because it may clear the complete memory out". We are the second owner of this car and it was never abused. Is it possible that maybe a bad harness or something. I have extensive experience with GM's and Ford's but with Chrysler's electrical is one thing I don't have experience with. Any suggestions for me to try to "fine tune" the glitch with this car? ABS lights and check engine lights get us uneasy. We feel something worse is about to happen. Any suggestions? Thanks
AnswerHi Rob,
The 12 of course came from disconnecting the battery in order to erase the codes, and the 55 is 'end of readout'.
The 21 code means that one or both (but probably just one, the upstream) of the oxygen sensors is not producing the expected signals. You might be able to get a readout at Autozone for free that would tell you which sensor needs to be replaced.
The 32 says there is something the matter with the egr system. It is saying that when the engine control module tests the egr it doesn't seem to function, which usually means the EGR valve is stuck, most likely ajar. So you need to try and get it freed up and moving again so that it will be closed when the engine is shut down, otherwise it will be difficult to start and to idle.
The first thing I would do is check the mechanical function of the egr valve which is located along a pipe that runs from the left exhaust manifold (on the side of the engine facing the front of the car) to the intake manifold area (where the incoming air in the large rubber tube enters the throttle). That valve is metal and has a round fitting with a vacuum hose attached, mounted on the top of the valve, and the round part is attached to the main body of the valve by a sort of saddle. Inside the open saddle you will see a metal rod (with a slot) that connects the round top fitting to to the valve body. That rod is a stem on the valve and it is supposed to go in and out in response to the engine vacuum which varies with RPM and throttle opening (gas pedal position). Take a spray can of WD-40 or other penetrating lubricant and spray the stem where it enters the valve body and then use a regular screwdriver blade tip inserted in the slot to lever the valve in and out to try and free up its motion. Also check all the rubber vacuum hoses associated with the valve and a nearby vacuum solenoid valve. If the valve seems to open (against the action of a spring) and close firmly by the spring action when using the screwdriver blade to facilitate the motion, then you should be able to now start the engine. You can, once it is idling, check that the valve stem moves when you rev the engine from idle to 2500 rpm and back to idle. If it still won't start, then removing and cleaning the interior of the valve, or buying a new one if it seems too crudy and corroded inside, is the next step to getting the engine to start.
Finally the 33 is about the A/C clutch relay circuit. If you have a volt-ohmmeter and are inclined to do some troubleshooting I can postal mail you the pages from the shop manual that show the circuit and discuss how it functions. Because it is an off/on situation you may need to do the testing when it has failed to respond in order to catch "in the act" as it were. Just send me a postal mail address. You might want to check fuses 8,9, and 19 in the power distribution center under the hood for evidence of a crack in the internal conductor that might cause an intermittant failure.
On the ABS light, you will have to get a readout with a plug-in reader to find out the code that is stored in its controller memory. It can't be read via the ignition key
Roland
Hi Roland and thank you for your suggestions. I disconnected the battery to erase the codes. When I reconnected the battery, the ABS light came right back on and the check engine light came on after about 4 or 5 miles of driving.
Here are the codes that came back up:
12,33,21,32,55
Any suggestions?
I appreciate all your help.
Thanks again!
Rob
Hi Robert,
You got codes 12,17,21,31,32,33,and 35! I am surprised that it runs at all! The 12 code often comes up because the battery was disconnected recently, so unless that isn't the case we'll set that aside. The 17 says the engine isn't warming up fast enough, or maybe the coolant temp sensor near the thermostat housing is out of order, the 21 says the upstream oxygen sensor is not varying as it should, the 31 says there is a problem with the fuel evaporation recovery system, the 32 says the egr is not functioning as it should, the 34 says the AC clutch circuit is not functioning as it should, and the 35 says the radiator fan circuit is not functioning as it should. So far you only noticed number 34 which makes me wonder if the other codes are valid.
I would disconnect the battery to erase all the codes except the 12 and 55, and then drive for a day and see if all those come back again or if not, which do. Then in the absence of other malfunctions you could decide to focus only on the one that is bothering you (34), or if they all come back, ask the mechanic to check some of the others that he can do quickly at low cost and then if most or all appear false I would get a new controller.
Let me know what you find, please.
Roland
Hi Robert,
The ABS light means there is a problem with the anti-lock function but not the overall braking system. So I would not be uneasy about the brakes until/unless the regular red brake warning light comes on. In the meantime there is a connector under the dash at the very top edge of the driver side kick panel/inner cowl (above and forward of the hood release) into which a diagnostic readout box can be plugged and which then allows you to determine which part of the ABS system has been sensed to be at fault. I suspect that you need a fairly sophicticated readout box such as the Chrysler DRB III only available at a dealer to read the ABS fault codes. Once you get the code number the focus of the repair is narrowed. If a generic reader will access the ABS codes, you might be able to get a free readout at an Autozone parts store. However their reader may only give you codes for the check engine light; below is how to do that yourself without a readout box:
On the check engine light and AC non-engage synchrony, it probably is due to there being a problem with the AC clutch/AC relay or the wiring for them. But that light is part of the engine controller and does not require a readout box for access. There are a number of possible sensors/circuits that could be the cause of your problem. Fortunately there is an on-board system to detect problems and list them specifically as a two-digit trouble code. To find out which is giving you trouble just take your ignition key and turn the ignition switch 'on-off-on-off-on and leave it on" within a period of 5 seconds or less. Then watch the check engine indicator lamp to begin to flash and pause, flash and pause... Count the number of flashes between the pauses. There is a short pause between the flash groups that are the first and second digits of a code number, and a longer pause between the second digit of a code and the first digit of the next code number. Repeat the readout again to make sure have the counts and therefor the code numbers correct. You can get a code translator at: www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html
Write me back with the code numbers and we'll take it from there to find out what exactly is wrong.
The codes can be erased by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes. But that action always causes a 12 code (battery disconnected recently) and the routine 55 (end of readout) will also remain. Erasing the codes just does that, it doesn't effect the function of the car. So you can just drive it again until the check engine light comes on again to get the current code. The long past codes too will self erase after 50-100 key on-off cycles so a single instance will not be stored forever. So ignore the earlier reluctance to erase the codes.
I doubt there is a general problem with the harness. Just get the current code(s) and we will go from there. The Chrysler wiring system is quite consistent and serviceable.
Roland
