QuestionHello again,
Thank you for your help. Well, I have tested quite a few components and I still am unsure of exactly what the problem is. So... let me give you a run down.
I could not hear the fuel pump running for a second or so on key on and I was not getting any spark. I checked the cam and crank sensors and both checked out good. I got both supply and signal voltage on each. On a side note, I did not find any paper spacer on the crankshaft position sensor unit upon removal as was indicated by the Haynes manual I purchased.
I have verified that I was getting voltage to the fuel pump. I get 12v with the key on and about 9.9v while cranking. (I am unsure if this is too low. That reading was taken with the fuel pump connector disconnected)
I disconnected the fuel line where it connects to the fuel rail and placed it into a container to try and determine if fuel was being pumped. I got nothing during key on or cranking. I checked the ASD and fuel pump relays for the proper continuity and I connected each of them to a battery and checked that they had switched. They both checked good. I've checked all fuses.
This led me to believe that the fuel pump was bad, however, I still do not have any spark. So, the only thing left that I can determine is the PCM... What do you think?
One other thing... the throttle position sensor has started "clicking" when the key is on. I checked the computer for codes again after this started happening and I am getting a code 24 which is "throttle position sensor voltage too high." I checked the connection and all seems good there.
I hope you can help. This has turned into quite a problem. I wonder if I have missed something, but I checked everything twice and sometimes three times to ensure that I wasn't.
What do I do next?
Thank you for your time. It is very appreciated!
Chad
-------------------------
Followup To
Question -
Hello,
Thank you for your prompt reply. The exact code sequence I got was 12, 32, 45, 55. I have had several Chrysler/Dodge vehicles and was familiar with 12 and 55, so I did not list those. I apologize for that. I checked the EGR valve and it appeared to be functioning properly. I then checked for a spark on 2 of the cylinders. If standing in front of the car, I checked the first two cylinders from left to right on the side of the engine closest to the front of the car. I had no spark on either. This leads me to believe that the distributor pack deal on the upper rear of the engine is bad. What else could it be? Would you agree with that and how could I confirm that for certain or what would your suggestion be? Thank you for your time!
-------------------------
Followup To
Question -
I was unable to locate this previously answered. I have a 1997 Chrysler Cirrus with 178,000 miles. It stalled on the interstate yesterday and would not restart. Today I pulled 2 codes. Code 32 and code 45. I am unable to find anything on code 45. The car still will not start. Any ideas? Thank You!
Answer -
Hi Chad,
The 45 code is a general statement that there is something at fault with the transmission. The transmission has a separate memory and readout protocol so to find out what is wrong with it you have to have reader with that capability. It may be more economic to find that out at a dealership. In any case it is unlikely to cause the engine to stall and then refuse to start.
Also are you sure that you didn't misread the 55 code which means "end of readout" as a 45 code. You should either have gotten a 32-55 or a 32-45-55.
The reason for your no start based on the fault code 32 is likely that the egr valve is stuck open which will often prevent starting and idling when coasting. It is saying that when the engine control module tests the egr it doesn't seem to function, which usually means the EGR valve is stuck, most likely ajar. So you need to try and get it freed up and moving again so that it will be closed when the engine is shut down, otherwise it will be difficult to start and to idle.
The first thing I would do is check the mechanical function of the egr valve which is located along a pipe that runs from the left exhaust manifold (on the side of the engine facing the front of the car) to the intake manifold area (where the incoming air in the large rubber tube enters the throttle). That valve is metal and has a round fitting with a vacuum hose attached, mounted on the top of the valve, and the round part is attached to the main body of the valve by a sort of saddle. Inside the open saddle you will see a metal rod (with a slot) that connects the round top fitting to to the valve body. That rod is a stem on the valve and it is supposed to go in and out in response to the engine vacuum which varies with RPM and throttle opening (gas pedal position). Take a spray can of WD-40 or other penetrating lubricant and spray the stem where it enters the valve body and then use a regular screwdriver blade tip inserted in the slot to lever the valve in and out to try and free up its motion. Also check all the rubber vacuum hoses associated with the valve and a nearby vacuum solenoid valve. If the valve seems to open (against the action of a spring) and close firmly by the spring action when using the screwdriver blade to facilitate the motion, then you should be able to now start the engine. You can, once it is idling, check that the valve stem moves when you rev the engine from idle to 2500 rpm and back to idle. If it still won't start, then removing and cleaning the interior of the valve, or buying a new one if it seems too crudy and corroded inside, is the next step to getting the engine to start. In the absence of any code other than 32 this is the best approach to getting the car to start.
Roland
Answer -
Hi Chad,
You might want to do these tests before spending all that money on a new distributor/coil unit.
Lets assume this is a problem with the distributor/coil/cap/or rotor rather than with one of the timing/fuel synch sensors (of which there are 2 and ideally if one of the three were bad you would have gotten a code for it). And this assumes that the fuel pump is operating when you first turn on the ignition (for about a second then shuts off) and that it pumps while you are cranking (which verifies the 2 sensors are working and that the ASD relay is closing to provide power to the coil).
To check for the coil's wiring to the rest of the system, note that there is a 6-way and a 2-way (with only 1 wire) connector to the coil/distributor. Using an ohmmeter:
check for continuity between pin 11 of the pcm and pin 1 of the 6-way (black/gray) which is the ignition coil driver wire;
check for continuity between 6-way pin 2 (black) and ground;
check for continuity between PCM pin 6 and pin 2 of the 2-way connector (dark green/orange or black/red?) which is the ASD relay output wire;
check the resistor in the distributor cap itself:measure between the center button and the ignition coil terminal; it should be about 5,000 ohms.
You can check the primary of the coil by measuring the resistance between the socket at the coil where the single wire (black/red or dark green/orange?) of the 2-pin connector is normally connected and a ground: it should be 0.6 to 0.8 ohms
The secondary coil resistance can be measured between the coil tower and the same point as just described above on the 2-way socket at the coil: it should read 12 to 18k ohms.
Check the rotor for continuity (no resistance value is given in the manual).
While I have focussed on the coil, etc. be aware that the failure of any of the sensors could cause the ASD relay to open which would kill the spark too, so that is why you want to verify that the ASD relay is in fact closed (there is voltage at the fuel pump when the engine is being cranked, or you have 12V on the red/black or dark green/ orange? wire on the 2-way connector coming to the distributor which is the ASD output voltage.
That is about as much as I can offer tonight. Let me know if this is useful and if not what else you might need to know.
Roland
If all those tests check out AND we get no related fault codes, the manual suggests replacing the distributor if you indeed have no spark.
AnswerHi Chad,
Well without fuel or spark we indeed have a problem. The 9.9 volt to the pump when cranking is o.k. The failure to pump is not o.k. I would be inclined to check that the black wire on pin 3 of the pump supply is grounded with an ohmmeter, compared to any shiney chassis surface nearby and if it isn't then check the ground point at the center of the rear trunk lid opening bottom. The pump should pump gas if it is getting voltage and is grounded. You could even jump 12 to the pump directly from the battery and verify that it won't run. Then replace it if it won't.
On the spark, I would once again try for spark using a spare plug as described earlier, once you have corrected the fuel pump situation. Then I wonder if you did the distributor electrical tests that I described earlier? It could be that the power transistor in the distributor has gone bad. It is the ultimate driver for the coil and may be replaceable without buying a new distributor (ask at the parts department of the dealer).
The reason you didn't see a spacer is that it is worn away (sacrificed as soon as you start cranking); that is its purpose. Just in case that its position is no longer accurate due to being removed, I would get a new spacer (again from the dealer) and reinstall the crank sensor with the spacer/tip pressed against the flexplate.
On the throttle position sensor, I would remove the plug, and check that you have 5 volts on the violet/white wire when the ignition is on, and then I would measure the variable resistance between the center pin of the tps and either of its side pins while manipulating the throttle to see if you can locate an open or short discontinuity. If not, then check the voltage showing on sensor wire at the middle pin of the PCM (with the ignition on) to see if it might be shorted to some other voltage source, and check its continuity to pin 35 of the black 40-way at the PCM. It troubles me that it "clicks", perhaps there is a short in the TPS that is arcing, because it shouldn't click.
I wouldn't buy a PCM until I did all the above checks. It may be futile to jump to that attempt at fixing this.
Roland
