QuestionWe purchased this car back in Oct of 2005. We had the spark plugs changed out at that time by a local mechanic (not dealership). The car was generally serviced by the used car dealer at the time of purchase.
It always seemed to run a little rough, but it still got good gas mileage.
Last month the check engine light came on and if I remember correctly it would flash. The owners manual said it needed to go to a dealer because it was propably an emission control problem. March 13, 2006 we carried the car to a local Chrysler Dealership. The receipt states: customer says check light is on and the vehicle is running rough verified concern checked ignition system found wires cracked and shorting to ground and cap coil terminal corroded removed intake replaced spark plug wires, cap and rotor also found two injectors stopped up removed injectors and cleaned checked operation. also did a recall on C45 Floor shifter park interlock recall. We picked up the car on 3/15/06 my son went to work that night and drove it home parked in our carport and did not attempt to drive it again until 3/20/06 because the car would not turn over. It was not dead it did make the attempt sound, but it wasn't turning over.
The dealership was not able to work on it again until 3/24/06. We had to have it towed in.
This time that could not figure out why it was not starting they told me their techs did not get paid for not fixing the problem. It did start once for them but next day would not. Finally, on 4/3/06 they said that it was fixed: checked fuel pressure low removed tank replaced fuel pump module fuel pressure within specifications running rough removed upper intake removed fuel rail and injectors cleaned debris from injectors and fuel rail reinstalled rail, injectors and upper intake test drove concern corrected.
We picked up the car that evening about 5pm he drove it to work and home that night and the next.
There was a noticeable gas smell that evening when he parked under our carport. The next day he got in the car the gas hand was in the red. He called me to ask if I thought there might be a leak or that they messed up the gas guage. I had him call the dealership and they said it was possible bring it in the next day they would try to get to it by 3pm. When I got home, I try to start the car it did and as he said the gas hand was on the red mark. The next morning I put about 2 1/2 to 3 gals of gas in the tank was going to pull it up in the carport a little further to put something under it to see if a leak might show. And quess what? It would not start. Try to turn over, but couldn't or wouldn't. I was back on the phone with the dealership a little irate. They did at least pay for the towing. We picked the car up the next afternoon. It was starting but not running smoothly. Now they say the only thing they will do is replace all lines and put new injectors drop tank and reclean completely at a price of $2000.00. Our first trip the car was starting just running rough. We had not had a problem with it starting at all. Our trips cost us $282.31 for the first and $552.60 for the second. After all this explanation can you suggest to us what we need to do. As you can probably quess the car is under my carport and has not started since my son parked it there last night (4/6/06). Please help me if you can. I'm at my last straw and money.
AnswerHi Betty,
Thank you for the complete history of this problem.
If the battery is strong enough to turn over the engine then there is one component that is sometimes overlooked that affects the fuel mixture and thus idling and running, called the exhaust gas recirculation valve and it is something that you or your son could examine. Here is a description of what to do:
The first thing I would do is check the mechanical function of the egr valve which is located along a pipe that runs from the left exhaust manifold (on the side of the engine facing the front of the car) to the intake manifold area (where the incoming air for the engine comes in the large rubber tube that enters the throttle valve, on the driver's end of the engine). That valve is metal and has a round fitting with a vacuum hose attached, mounted on the top of the valve, and the round part is attached to the main body of the valve by a sort of saddle. Inside the open saddle you will see a metal rod (with a slot) that connects the round top fitting to to the valve body. That rod is a stem on the valve and it is supposed to go in and out in response to the engine vacuum which varies with RPM and throttle opening (gas pedal position). Take a spray can of WD-40 or other penetrating lubricant and spray the stem where it enters the valve body and then use a regular screwdriver blade tip inserted in the slot to lever the valve in and out to try and free up its motion. Also check all the rubber vacuum hoses associated with the valve and a nearby vacuum solenoid valve. If the valve seems to open (against the action of a spring) and close firmly by the spring action when using the screwdriver blade to facilitate the motion, then you should be able to now start the engine. You can, once it is idling, check that the valve stem moves when you rev the engine from idle to 2500 rpm and back to idle. If it still won't start, then removing and cleaning the interior of the valve, or buying a new one if it seems too crudy and corroded inside, is the next step to getting the engine to start.
If the battery is too weak to crank the car, then if there is power in your carport I would suggest buying a battery charger at an autoparts store for $30 or so and charging the battery overnight and then try to start it.
If that all doesn't get it going, then my inclination would be to find another shop that has a good reputation with your friends, or the local mechanic if you trust him, and call them up and see what they would advice/do next to get you on the road to cure. I would not go back to the dealer if their only solution is the $2,000 repair.
Once another shop finds the problem, if it is not what the dealer says it is or is different from anything that you have spent money on at the dealer so far, I would go back to the dealer with the repair receipt from whoever solves the problem and request restitution of the service charges that proved ineffective. If they refuse I would file a claim in the Small Claims Court of you town or county.
With no codes, it has to be something related to the fuel system or the mixture of fuel and air. Another possibility is that the manifold absolute pressure sensor is inaccurate but not so much as to set a code. However the dealer should have been able to diagnose that with a diagnostic readout box that would have shown them that it was reading inaccurately without setting a code. So that is another possiblilty which if true would be grounds for restitution.
So see if the shop who takes over next has a diagnostic reader that actually tells what atmospheric pressure that sensor is showing or not and that will tell if that is the problem. In my '89 Chrysler I had such a problem: we were at sea level but the sensor thought we were on a mountain top so the mixture was way wrong, but not so bad as to set the fault code.
But do take a look at the EGR yourself.
I am going to be pretty busy this weekend so I will not be available in all likelihood until Monday afternoon, officially. But you can reach me by the "rate response" tab in the meantime if something important comes up.
Roland
