Question-Rolland,
I checked the four pin connector all the are showing and open the fourth pin is showing 1.5 ohms. I realize the fourth pin is the power pin but just so you know the meter will real that low. also i tried installing another coil, no luck. I just left the other one in place and plugged in the new coil. But if i was loosing the 12 volts after the 1 to 2 seconds it would probably not be getting the signal to the coil. sorry for all the questions. thanks for the help
dean
-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Finston <rfinston@hotmail.com>
To: deanmoe@aol.com
Sent: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:58:58 +0000
Subject: codes
Hi Dean,
Thanks for getting back with the trouble codes. One request, when you write back: please tell me the date and subject of your original question because my index of previous questions doesn't include the name of the questioner so I can't specifically recall what engine you have or exactly what is the problem you are having until I find that earlier question.
You gave me 4 codes, but one, 0303, is a duplicate. So the general responses are these: P0303 and 0352:
There is some problem with the primary circuit of the spark coil for the coil that powers up spark coil #2. I would suggest that you pull the 4-pin plug on the spark coil pack and measure the resistance between ground (the engine block) and each of the three socket pins that are located adjacent to either the interior bulge in the socket or the exterior tab of the socket (the fourth pin which is adjacent to neither is the one that brings the 12v from the ASD relay that powers the spark coils). Compare those three resistance measurement to oneanother and see if one of them is "odd man out". You will need a low range digital ohmmeter because we are trying to make measurements in the range of 1.0 ohm. If they are all quite similar, then do the same sort of measurement on the three contacts in the plug that pair up with those in the coil socket, again looking for any odd reading. Let me know if you something quite different which would implicate the need to replace the coil or the harness to the coil.
The 1294 is saying that the idle speed is not with the design range. It could be a faulty idle speed control motor but I would first remove the air intake housing at the throttle body and open the throttle butterfly valve and clean the back surface of the butterfly plate and the throat of the body using a solvent. That may solve that code problem.
If there was a fourth code number let me know that as well. If you would be so kind when replying, please use the return question format via the allexpert site rather than via emai, and merely copy this response into your next communication to me from the site so in that way our whole thread of question/response/ etc will be complete and perhaps therefor useful to other who might have a similar problem.
Thanks,
Roland
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Followup To
Question -
-Hi Rolland
I checked again for the fuel pump when turning the key and it did come on. I checked the pin again and found that the 12 volts stays for 1-2 seconds. Sorry about the bad info. I am trying to borrow a reader from a friend. In the mean time I couldn't find where the cam senser is in the book. Any ideas. Thanks again for all the help.
dean------------------------
Followup To
Question -
-hi Rolland
I checked the four pin plug. And there was no voltage at all. Is there a way to tell if the ASD relay is bad? I really appriciate the help. I have now purchased the manual. So hopefully with your help We will fix the problem.
Thanks again
Dean
Followup To
Question -
After changing the filter I checked the spark. I do seem to have lost the ignition signal as you suggested. This car has a 3.5 liter in it by the way. Any other ideas?
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Followup To
Question -
I recently bought a 1997 chrysler concorde at an auction. I enjoy the car even though it has a lot of mileage. The other day I ran out of gas first time in many years. When I added more gas and the vechicle would not start. The next day I went there and it started breifly ran for maybe two minutes with feathering on the accelorator. Then it died and has not started since. It does turn over fine. The weather has really changed recently from 40 on the day it ran out of gas to 3 today. I have added heet and more gas. I am up to about a quarter of a tank. I assume that i sucked up some garbage from the gas tank and either clogged a fliter or a line. any ideas? Thanks, dean
Answer -
Hi Dean,
The filter would be a good place to start. It is located on the right side of the car toward the rear just in front of the gas tank. You will want to raise the right rear of the car and support it on jack stands. The filter has two quick connect fittings. The outlet has a black ring which if you apply an open end wrench of the same inner diameter to, so as to push the ring in the direction of the fuel flow, the fitting will allow disconnection. On the inlet side there are a couple of white plastic tabs which if squeezed will similarly allow for disconnect. Before you open either fitting wrap a rag around the filter and the connections to absorb the fuel runoff and avoid contact with your eyes or skin. Then you can remove the bolt that holds the filter bracket in place and remove the filter. Use a little smear of engine oil on the ends of the new filter before reattaching the fuel lines.
If that doesn't solve the problem, then check for spark at one of the spark plug caps(you might want to do that first just in case you have lost the ignition signal by coincidence, though unlikely). And you may want to recharge the battery to insure good cranking and voltage when you try to restart after changing the filter.
Roland
Answer -
Hi Dean,
The difficulty with the '97-on is that the self-diagnostic capability is not easily accessed with the ignition key, rather it requires a Diagnostic Readout Box or its equivalent. But you can tell a little about the possible cause by looking at the 12V output of the autoshutdown relay to see how long it will maintain the output during a 5 second cranking. To do that:
I would disconnect the spark plug coil's 4 pin plug. Notice that three of the 4 contacts in the plug are adjacent to either a tab on the outside of the plug or a bulge on the inside of the plug wall. The fourth pin contact isn's adjacent and it is the one you want to measure the voltage on. Put a voltmeter between that contact and ground (engine block) and have a helper crank the engine for 5 seconds while you watch to see if there is 12V on the contact for 5 seconds, 1-2 seconds or not at all. If it is present for 5 seconds then there is something wrong with the coil or the controller, if it is there for 1-2 seconds then there is something wrong with either the cam or crank sensors, and if it is there not as all then ASD relay may have failed, or the engine controller. So do that test and let me know what you get. If there is some way to borrow a OBD-II code reader that would be helpful, but we may get a good clue from the voltage test.
Roland
Answer -
Hi Dean,
Yes, just remove it from its socket and with a couple of jumper wires apply battery voltage to pins on opposite sides of the base. One pair is the switch contacts which will do nothing no matter which polarity you use, while the other pair should make a click sound when you have the correct polarity. Once you have that click sound, then use a continuty testor or ohmmeter to verify that the other pair of pins is conducting at near 0 ohms resistance. If that works, then the ASD is o.k. and we have to test the voltage supply and activation signal to the relay.
But before you pull the relay, just to be sure the ASD is not powering up when you turn the ignition switch to the run position (not the starter position), try turning the key to run and listen carefully for the fuel pump in the gas tank to hum for 1-2 seconds (that is essentially the same test that you did for the spark coil supply wire, only this time done with the key in the run position). If you don't hear a hum then do check the relay. If you do et the hum, then we need to see why you didn't get 12v for 1-2 seconds while cranking because those two devices (the fuel pump and the spark coil 12V input are supplied by the ASD, so neither should work or both should work unless one or the other is bad).
Let me know what you find out. I'll be back later this evening and will check for a response, or otherwise await a progress report. The ASD relay is in one corner of the power distribution center under the hood, adjacent to the 3 fuse sockets (maybe only 2 in use).
Roland
Answer -
Hi Dean,
The 1-2 second presence of the 12V, were that also the behavior during cranking the engine for 5 seconds, would corroborate that either the cam or the crank sensor was the problem. The cam sensor looks at one of the cam shaft sprockets while the crank sensor is at the rear of the engine and looks at the flex plate that connects the engine to the trans. If you can get a code readout that would tell you which sensor is bad. The Haynes manual (#25025) shows exactly where those are and describes some tests of each as an alternative if you can't get a readout. So that is the next ste, and then finally replacing whichever sensor is bad should solve the problem. Also take a look at the wiring to the two sensors which could if compromised kill the signal from the sensor to the engine controller just the same as a failed sensor.
Roland
AnswerHi Dean,
I have a couple of questions and some suggestions. On the trouble codes were there 3 with one duplicate number as shown in what you wrote me, or four different codes?
Second, I'm thinking that we have a misunderstanding on the resistance measurements of the old coil pack (and because you have it take the same set of reading on the new coil pack: measure the resistance with one lead of the ohmmeter conneted to the pin of the coil which receives the 12V input and the other lead on each of the other three pins of the coil so that you will get 3 separate readings of somewhere around 0.5 ohms, but tell me the numbers exactly. Do the same on the new coil for comparison and tell me those numbers. Then measure the resistance between the spark towers of each pair of towers,e.g. 3 to 6, 1 to 5, and 2 to 4. These will be in the range of 7,000 to 15,000 ohms. Tell me the numbers for the old and the new coil.
By the way, you can't test a new coil for its functionality in terms of starting the car unless you install it on the engine because the voltage for the plugs is developed between the tower and the base of the coil pack which must be in contact with the engine.
The fault codes are very important to get correct. You told me that the 12V supply voltage to the plug was only present for 1-2 seconds of a 5 second crank, and I told you that typically means that one of the sensors for the cam or the crank is not being seen at the engine controller. Yet none of the 3 codes that you gave me are for that problem. So please verify the codes once again.
Roland
