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How is performance affected by an internally dirty throttle body? My 95' 3.3L intrepid's is filthy and the engine bogs at higher RPMs when under load but doesnt without the load.Or maby its something else.
What do you think?
Kent
Answer -
Hi Kent,
I am not certain why the cleanliness of the throttle body is so important, but it may have to do with the fact that if it doesn't close all the way it may throw off the engine controller which takes some data on the assumption that it is closed for purposes of calibrating the fuel delivery system at start up based on the known minimum air flow of the by-pass passage. In any case, it has been frequently advised that the butterfly and the throat be cleaned if performance is impaired for no other known reason, so I would encourage you to do so.
Also, the engine controller may have noticed something awry and made a note of it in its memory. It may be possible for you to ask the engine controller whether it has observed any failures in the control systems that are stored as codes in its memory. The most useful thing to do would be to try to get the fault codes that may stored in the engine controller memory to readout. Try using the ignition key: turn it "on-off-on-off-on" and leave it "on" (doing this quickly, no longer than 5 seconds). By "on" I mean just the normal position when the engine is running, not the cranking position. The 'check engine'light will remain on when you leave the key in the "on" position with the engine still not running. But then watch the 'check engine' light to begin flashing, then pause, flashing, pause, etc. Count the number of flashes before each pause and keep track of the numbers. Repeat the readout and verify the counts are correct. Then group them in pairs in the order that they came out, thus forming two digit numbers. You may notice that the pause is shorter between the digits of a given number, and longer between the numbers themselves. Then send me a 'follow-up' question telling me the results of your readout. By the way, 55 will be the last number (two groups of 5 flashes each) and that is the code for "end of readout".
I have the troubleshooting manual for several engines and we can look up the possibilities of what is wrong based upon what fault codes you show.
There is also an essay on fault codes at the site:
http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html
which gives the meaning of the code numbers. But then you need to get specific info for what exactly might be the diagnostic tests or parts to replace to complete the repair.
If this approach doesn't produce fault codes at all, not even a 55, then you will have to go to a good tune-up shop where they have a more sophisticated code reader in order see if there are any codes. You should be able to get a readout for under $50.
So those are some ideas for you to consider. Let me know what happens and how I might be of help.
Roland
Here are the codes:
12,33,41,54 but no 55
Kent
Answer -
Hi Kent,
As you may have learned, the 12 means the battery was disconnected recently, the 33 has to do with the AC clutch circuit, the 41 with the charging circuit, and the 54 with the camshaft position sensor signal. Make sure that really is a 54 not a 55. You can readout as often as you like.
The 54 if true would suggest that the hall effect sensor is flakey or the wiring for it is unreliable. Because the engine will run it presumably is getting the 8V supply on its orange wire (turn on the ignition switch, unplug the connector and verify that reading). The black/light blue wire goes to pin 4 of the PCM and the tan/yellow goes to pin 44. So you might check the connector and verify that those wires are all patent from the plug to the PCM 60-way plug. The sensor is located on the front of the engine, under the thermostat housing. The PCM is on the right inner fender. The actual performance of the sensor is best accessed with a Chrysler diagnostic readout box (DRB) which can measure its output when the engine is running. The other codes are worth investigating but not relative to the bogging down issue.
Bogging down at high rpm under load may also be due to a deteriorated catalytic converter. Does yours rattle? An exhaust shop can access whether the converter is obstructed.
Let me know what you learn.
Roland
Hi and sorry for the delay.Since then I replaced the cam sensor which somehow caused it to run on only 5 cylindars (no spark at #6 wire or plug). Then when it warms up
it doesnt run at all. And so far theres only one code of 54 (cam sensor) regestered on the computer.?
Whats up with that?
Kent
AnswerHi Kent,
The code 54 could well be the fact that the old code will erase from the memory only after 50-100 key on-off cycles. You can erase the code by disconnecting the battery for 5 minutes (which will erase the 54 but set a new 12(battery power to controller disconnected) which will go away 50-100 later). Then drive it and see if the 54 code returns which means there is still something wrong with the cam sensor. Did you leave the paper spacer on its tip, if not put it on and reinstall. Did you tighten its bolt to 9 ft-lbs?
If the 54 code doesn't return the I would suspect one of the two temperature sensors may be off-value, but not so much as to set a fault code. The coolant temp sensor is near thermostat housing and when you remove its plug (tan/black, black/light blue wires)and you measure the resistance across its terminals it should be around 15,000 ohms at 80F and drop to about 700 ohms when the engine is at 190F). The air temp sensor mounted on the intake manifold near the egr valve solenoid (black/red, black/light blue) should measure 1,800 ohms at 80F and around 100 ohms at 190F. So see if those sensors are o.k. or not. If one of them seems to be out of calibration then replace it and see if that solves the problem of dying when the engine is warm.
Roland
