QuestionHi,
Sorry it has taken so long for me to get back to you. The web site kept saying you were maxed out.
Anyway, the van is fixed! The repair was a real nightmare! It turns out that plymouth did use fusable link in our van and one of the links was burnt out.
We are figuring that when the fuel pump went out that it fed back and burnt out the link.
We had to work in some really tight quarters next to the strut tower to get the burnt link out and a new link spliced in, but we got in done and the van started right up. The van has been running great ever since and we even have seen some improvement in gas milage.
The information that you were able to give us on the wiring really helped.
Especially since we spent an entire day looking for a relay that all the books kept saying was there and really wasn't. We were begining to question our sanity on that one.
Thank you again for all your help.
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Followup To
Question -
Hi,
We have a 1991 plymouth voyager with the 3.0L V6 engine that suddenly won't start. There were no warning signs. We tracked the problem down to what we thought was a bad fuel pump. We replaced the fuel pump and wiring harness but it still won't start.
On further investigation we discovered that we aren't getting any electrical current to the fuel pump. There is current from the ignition switch but no current throught the newly replaced wiring harness.
We are now suspecting that the fuel pump relay needs replaced but can't seem to find it. (if we are off our rockers on the whole relay thing please let us know)
Our Haynes manual as well as the shop manual at my husbands work say the relay is one of 4 relays located by the battery on the left side of the engine compartment; however, on our van there is only 3 relays and the fuel pump relay isn't one of them. Could they be using a fusable link instead of a relay?
Your help with this is greatly appreciated!
Answer -
Hi Teresa,
I just discovered why perhaps I didn't hear from you today or yesterday: the Allexpert website had me showing "maxed out" though I had only answered 3 questions yesterday and none today, whereas I was signed up to answer 5 a day. Something is wrong with their system evidentally.
If you were disappointed, please forgive them their error.
I should be 'good' for the rest of the day, if you have a further question about your van.
Roland
Hi Teresa,
I am a bit limited in knowing exactly what the circuitry is for the '91 van, I only have the '93 van shop manual which does show a total of 5 relays on the left inner fender, one of which is the fuel pump relay. But I know in the car line for '91 there was no fuel pump relay separate from the autoshutdown relay which powered the fuel pump as well as the injectors and the coil. Only in '92 cars did they put in a separate fuel pump relay. So that is probably why you can't find it. Have you found an autoshutdown relay on the left inner fender shield? It should have wires colored: dark blue/yellow, solid dark blue, dark green/black, and red perhaps coupled with a red/whits if you have an electronic transmission. Now if indeed you don't have fuel pump relay but rather only the autoshutdown relay that does not mean that that relay is necessarily bad. More typically the relay is not closing because it is not getting the signal from the engine controller to do so because in turn the engine controller is not getting a signal from the distributor. Is it the case that you have a typical distributor on the engine? If so, then the distributor shaft positon sensor may not be working which will result in the autoshutdown relay failing to close so as to produce spark, injection, and fuel pumping. There are a couple of ways to verify that this might be the case: first check for spark when you crank the engine by pulling the center wire from the distributor cap and hold it so the tip is 1/4" from oone of the cylinder heads. If during a 5 second crank you get spark for the full 5 seconds then that theory is out the window (the autoshotdown relay is closing and so it should power the fuel pump). If not, and you get spark for no more than the first 1-2 seconds of cranking then that is a sign of possible distributor sensor failure. You can verify that by querying the engine controller as to whether it is not getting a signal from the distributor:
The most useful thing to do would be to try to get the fault codes that are likely stored in the engine controller memory to readout. Try using the ignition key: turn it "on-off-on-off-on" and leave it "on" (doing this quickly, no longer than 5 seconds). Then watch the 'check engine' light to begin flashing, then pause, flashing, pause, etc. Count the number of flashes before each pause and keep track of the numbers. Repeat the readout and verify the counts are correct. Then group them in pairs in the order that they came out, thus forming two digit numbers. You may notice that the pause is shorter between the digits of a given number, and longer between the numbers themselves. Then send me a 'follow-up' question telling me the results of your readout. By the way, 55 will be the last number (two groups of 5 flashes each) and that is the code for "end of readout". The codes for a distributor sensor failure are 11 and/or 54, while a problem with the ASD relay circuit proper is 42.
I have the troubleshooting manual for the 3.0L engine and we can look up the possibilities of what is wrong based upon what fault codes you show.
There is also an essay on fault codes at the site:
http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html
which gives the meaning of the code numbers. But then you need to get specific info for what exactly might be the diagnostic tests or parts to replace to complete the repair.
If you don't get spark at all during the 5 second cranking, then it could be the spark coil, in which case the way to test for that is to see if the coil is getting any primary side voltage on dark breen/black wire (the 'upright' of the "T"-plug at the coil). If it does show voltage present for the full 5 seconds of cranking then you know that the ASD relay is working and that the problem is with the coil.
So do that spark test and that code readout and get back to me with the results.
'Sorry you are having so much frustration but I think we can unravel this. I will be able to check my in box between 3 and 5 pm today PST, otherwise I will check it after 10 pm or definitely no later than tomorrow morning early.
Roland
AnswerHello Teresa,
Thank you for getting back to me with the answer to your situation. Yes, the allexpert site was going bonkers about the time when we were corresponding and stayed unuseable for about a week. Finally a couple of days ago they straightened out their daily message limiting counters for the entire auto repair category which were not zeroing every 24 hours, so all of us quickly 'maxed out'.
I should have suggested looking at a fusible link but those are so seldom blowing in most situations (witness how difficult they are to replace). But sure enough as I look at the '93 diagrams there are a couple of links in series that feed the autoshutdown relay and (although you don't have one) the fuel pump relay, which is probably where the fuel pump got its power from. I had focused on the ASD relay instead of suggesting that you check out the links so I applaud your finding of the burnt out link.
I bet you are happy to have the van running again.
'Best to you both,
Roland
