QuestionThe codes are 33, 24, 22, 55. Checked this 3 times. Waiting for dear spouse to do that arcing thing.
Thanks, again.
EJ Day
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Followup To
Question -
Hello, Mr. Finston. My van, a 1993 Chrysler T/C, 3.3 Liter 6 cyl enginer, died while driving on the highway and refused to start. It was raining. Several days of dry weather later it started up and ran great, until the next bit of rainy weather. Died and wouldn't start. A local garage replaced the computer and it has ran great ever since...there has also been no rain until this week, when the van died at a stop sign. Same problem. I got it home after 3 days of dry weather, although tt died 8 times in 12 miles. so the problem seems to be getting worse.
The battery, alternator, starter appear to be fine. There is no distributor cap per se. It will turn over, but not start once it dies. Wondering if it could be something in the DIrect Inginition System -- I was given these keywords to search: computer, resistor, coil pack, and relay. I have no idea what I'm talking about..I'm just frustrated and desperate to get this fixed. Any suggestions on where to find schematic or what it might be? Thank you for any help. EJ Day
Answer -
Hello EJ,
I have a couple of ideas:
It is possible that the computer has stored a fault code based on a malfunction that it has detected. The most useful thing to do would be to try to get any fault codes stored in the engine controller memory to readout. Try using the ignition key: turn it "on-off-on-off-on" and leave it "on" (doing this quickly, no longer than 5 seconds). Then watch the 'check engine' light to begin flashing, then pause, flashing, pause, etc. Count the number of flashes before each pause and keep track of the numbers. Repeat the readout and verify the counts are correct. Then group them in pairs in the order that they came out, thus forming two digit numbers. You may notice that the pause is shorter between the digits of a given number, and longer between the numbers themselves. Then send me a 'follow-up' question telling me the results of your readout. By the way, 55 will be the last number (two groups of 5 flashes each) and that is the code for "end of readout".
I have the shop manual for the '93 Van with the 3.3L engine and we can look up the possibilities of what is wrong based upon what fault codes you show.
There is also an essay on fault codes at the site:
http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html
which gives the meaning of the code numbers. But then you need to get specific info for what exactly might be the diagnostic tests or parts to replace to complete the repair.
Another reason for the problem may be that the high tension (spark) side of the ignition system is suffering a breakdown due to increased arcing from the spark wires to metal parts of the engine nearby. If the spark wires are the originals that came when the car is new now would be a good time to replace them. You may be able to see the "light show" if you open the hood while the engine is idling on a humid evening in dark ambient light conditions.
You can also check the cables, using a jumper wire (a wire with an alligator clip at each end). Just ground one clip to the engine surface (a metal bolt or nut) and then hold the jumper wire by its insulation while using the free alligator clip as a probe passing it along the length of each spark plug wire at a distance of about 1/8" from the spark wire surface and watch for arcing to jump between the clip and the wire. Of course do this with the engine idling. Any arcing shows the spark plug wire is faulty.
On the resistance issue, you will note that there a 3 pairs of spark plug wire towers at the spark coil. The resistance between the center contacts of each pair of towers should be in the range of 7,000 to 16,000 ohms. Then there is a test of the primary spark coil windings: You will see a square plug at the side of the coil pack. Inside if you unplug it there are 4 terminals. The terminal that is diagonally located from the terminal that is adjacent to both of the tabs (inside and outside of the plug socket) is the common terminal and if you measure from that one to each of the other 3 terminals should be 0.5 to 0.7 ohms. These mearurement, while useful, require a good digital volt-ammmeter, and are probably not likely to be the cause of your problem. The spark wires themselves also have resistance built-in to reduce radio noise. So verify that the wires read between 3,000 and 12,000 ohm per foot of length when you measure between the ends of the wires, if they passed the arcing test above.
So those are a number of things to do. I would do the codes readout and spark wire arcing test first.
Roland
AnswerHi EJ,
Here is the code explanation:
33 means that the relay responsible for operating the AC compressor clutch is not working or the circuit for it is not correct. If you haven't noticed anything wrong with the AC I wouldn't give this much priority as it shouldn't cause any engine operating problems. You can always try replacing the relay which is located on the right inner fender, near to the right side strut tower. There are two relays side by side there and this one is the one to the rear.
The 22 code says that the engine coolant temp sensor voltage is not in the correct range. That sensor does affect the mixture but I'm not aware of why it would only cause a problem in the wet. But if you have an ohmmeter you could check it out. The resistance should be in the range of 7,000 to 13,000 ohms when the engine is cold (70F) and it should read 700 to 1,000 ohms when the engine is warmed up. You will find it on the top of the engine, between the large radiator hose manifold and the spark coil pack. It is screwed into the head and it has 2 wires on its plug that are black/light blue and tan/black. You could lift the tab on the plug, remove it, and measure the resistance between the two terminals on the sensor with an ohmmeter when the engine is cold and when it is hot and compare with my values given above.
The 24 is the throttle position sensor voltage being out of range. That sensor is located on the side of the throttle body and it too should not just be a cause of no start in wet conditions. You will find that it has three wires: once you remove its plug you can check the resistance between the pin that had the violet/white and black/light blue and find it to be a constant value no matter where the throttle valve is moved to, while if you measure between the orange/dark blue and either of the other two pins that the resistance will vary as you move the throttle valve from closed to full open and that the resistance values are a mirror image of oneanother when you switch the pins that you are measuring between. The main performance issue would be to verify that there is no discontinuity in the resistance values,i.e. it should change smoothly with the motion of the valve. If not, then get a new throttle position sensor and replace it simply by removing the two screws that hold it in place. Again this would not cause a problem just in the wet but it would be good to check it out and replace it if you find it flakey.
So I too am interested in the arcing test. But you can do this yourself, with the engine idling (unless you were joking that you wanted the spouse to be the one who gets shocked if the cables are bad :)) As long as you hold the jumper wire by its insulation, but near the movable end clip for mechanical stability, and don't hold on to the car body while you are doing the test then you shouldn't get a shock in the event that the arcing chooses to use you as a path to ground rather than the wire at the clip on the other end that is attached to the engine.
Let me know what you observe with all these tests.
Roland
