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Followup To
Question -
Hi Roland,
About 2 months ago my van wouldn't start. Moved the shifter to neutral and it started right up. Didn't occur again until a couple days ago, one time. It's a 94 with a 3.3l, 3 spd OD auto, 160K miles. Has never given me any serious problems other than the usual new tranny several years ago.
Yesterday it did the same. Turn on the ignition, and nothing, a few dashboard lights. The battery is pretty new and good. Had a friend check the headlights thinking if the batt as down the lights would dim, but they remained fully bright. Next start try and it might start. If not, after 2 or 3 more tries it would start. It never did NOT start but it might take 3 or 4 tries. Checked the computer codes (55) normal.
Any ideas b4 I spend hundreds at my unfriendly dealer? Could be a relay, broken wire, ignition switch?
Thanks very much for your assistance.
Sincerely yours,
Jeff Mann
Portland, OR
Answer -
Hi Jeff,
I saw your rating, thank you. The 'maxed out' happens when I do 4 questions in a running 24 hour period. So check again and if it is still maxed out, write me at rfinston@hotmail.com
Roland
Hello again. This is a great Site! Thanks.
Yes there is a clicking sound when I turn the key, like a relay click.
I looked at a number of Dodge Sites on the web late last night and these symptoms have shown up a number of times. I am totally amazed at the huge number of different problems people have had! I have had nothing other than the tranny, a water pump and that's about all! I am a geologist and love the car even though it's getting up there in miles.
So, other people report after replacing the starter the propblem went away. Another guy said a hard bang on the dash cleared it up!
Unfortunately this weekend my wife has the car (to sleep in for a Navy seminar in Seattle!) so I can't run out and test things.
If it is the started is it something I can replace? And should I ask someone to test it? Could it be "brushes" or contacts that are replaceable? I am a pretty good mechanic and have lots of normal tools, jackstands, ramps, etc.
Many thanks,
Jeff
AnswerHi Jeff,
When the situation is intermittant it is a bit harder to identify exactly what is wrong. It would be good when it next acts up to get under the hood while a helper trys the key. If the click is quiet and coming from the relay only, then the question is whether the relay internal contacts are or are not sending the voltage on the brown wire from the relay to the solenoid switch on the starter motor with good efficiency. If a full 12.6V (or whatever the battery voltage is at present) appears at the solenoid and the solenoid does not respond by clicking loudly then the solenoid is probably not working well. If it does respond then the starter motor is probably the problem (brushes or commutator worn) or the heavy gauge red wire directly from the battery to the starter motor is not cleanly connected at the battery or at the starter motor, or the battery may be weak.
If the full 12.6 doesn't get to the brown wire at the solenoid then there may be excessive resistance in the internal starter relay points (even though it is clicking) or the brown wire at the solenoid is loose or corroded.
I would begin (now that you know the ignition switch and the low current circuit thru the relay and the neutral/park safety switch to ground are o.k.) by removing the clamp on negative post of the battery, then the positive post clamp (put them on in reverse order for safety), and polishing the battery posts and clamp interface with a wire battery brush, then coat the interfaces with battery anti-corrosion compound. Then I would go to the starter motor (with the battery still disconnected) and remove the red wire and clean it and the brown wire and also check it for clean surfaces and then put them both back and firm of the connections. Put the cables back on the battery (and reset the clock and the radio channel assignments). If the battery is getting up in age (4 years or more) it could also be a factor (a battery hygrometer is what you use to check the specific gravity of its acid electrolyte; float has a calibration to determine the degree of charge on the battery). If you have a battery charger, give the battery a few hours on that.
Then see how reliable the starter system is over the immediate future. If it still gives you trouble on occasion, I would remove the starter motor and take it to a starter/alternator rebuild shop for testing and possible re-build based on the results of the test. I like to get a rebuild of a starter that I know the history of rather than trade it in for someone else's rebuilt one. (I generally avoid trading in for a rebuilt at a local parts store if there is a trade person who does it in his own shop and will stand behind his work for a year or two of warranty.)
So try to be ready to do the analysis the very next time it acts up, and in the meantime try the clean up of all the high current connections I described above.
Removing the starter motor is quite straightforward, genearlly just a couple of large bolts that release it from its mount in the bell housing. The wires are as described above, of course disconnect the battery.
Roland
