QuestionQUESTION: I have a 2005 Hyundai Sonata GLS V6 - I have been having intermittent problems with losing power mostly on freeways when my RPM's will drop and speed will as well. Took to dealership and they could not find any problem. Then my car finally broke down I was going to work and when I started it the car was driving real funny and was really losing power went and got gas then pulled out of parking lot and it died, check engine light came on and it would start up again but then just die. Had it towed to the dealership and they told me (found multiple misfires, Fuel trim is out of spec, Needs Fuel injector flush , and all new spark plugs) which is not covered under warranty and quoted me $712 and my car only has 55,663 miles on it, I declined service and had it towed to another dealership they checked it out and the car was running just fine once it got to other dealership and they checked it out and found codes P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0305, P0306 misfire codes and they checked spark plugs which they found to be in good condition same with wires. I took my car home and it ran ok for about 2 weeks and now it is a constant problem only the idle is really bad every time I start it, the car is in park, or I am at a light the car is feeling like it is going to die. Any advice would be helpful I am sick of getting the run around from the dealership and car is almost out of warranty I would love to know a little bit when I go back to dealership.
ANSWER: I'd say it's safe to eliminate the spark plugs as a potential cause. The idea that all six spark plugs went bad at the same time is a little ridiculous. On the other hand, the recommended maintenance interval on your spark plugs is 60,000 miles, so you should probably replace them (along with the plug wires) at that time even if they're not contributing to any issues.
I'd also say that an injector flush is not going to solve this issue. A clogged injector will not unclog all on its own, so the intermittent nature of your problem makes it apparent that this isn't the issue. Additionally, I've never seen any of the commonly touted injector cleaning services actually clean anything but a customer's wallet. The *only* injector service I've ever seen with noticeable results is one based off a General Motors technical service bulletin instructing the technician to create a mixture of GM Top Engine Cleaner and gasoline and to run this through the fuel injectors.
What we're looking for here is something that will cause reduced power on all cylinders, not just one cylinder or one bank. So we can eliminate things like spark plugs and oxygen sensors. We can also eliminate camshaft timing as a potential cause since the problem is intermittent-- the timing belt will not jump out of time and then back in later.
The fuel trim being out of specification (depending on the actual value) leads us to suspect that there could be a vacuum leak (not likely, but possible) or a fuel pressure or delivery issue. If your fuel pressure is low, the fuel delivery path is restricted, or the fuel is contaminated, you'll get the symptoms and trouble codes you note. If the condition occurs only after driving the vehicle for a significant period of time, especially when the fuel level is low, the low fuel pressure is even more likely. The problem tends to occur due to fuel pump overheating, and the lack of performance tends to be worse the more the accelerator is depressed.
Another potential cause is a broken catalyst in one of the catalytic converters. A broken piece can lodge itself in the exhaust, creating the symptoms you have, but then break free again allowing normal performance.
My instinct is that you have a fuel pressure issue, only because the initial dealer said the fuel trims were out of specification. Large positive fuel trims and misfire codes on all cylinders are exactly consistent with low fuel pressure and not as much with a clogged or restricted exhaust. Did either dealer run the vehicle for any length of time in an effort to duplicate the condition and facilitate testing of the cause? Did either dealer do a fuel pressure test to check the maximum available pressure? Even while running properly, we can check the maximum pressure the fuel pump is capable of delivering at any time by momentarily pinching the fuel return line shut. This pressure should be about 80 to 90 PSI or so. If it's down in the 50 to 60 PSI range, there's no question the fuel pump is worn and needs to be replaced.
As a final note, it's possible your warranty is already expired due to the amount of time the vehicle has been owned. The warranty is for five years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first. Since this is a 2005 model year vehicle, this will depend on the exact date of purchase of the vehicle.
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QUESTION: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR REPLY, The second dealership said they did drive it for an extended period of time and could not get it to act up, and Was told they had no way of checking the fuel pump but was told by them that it sounds like that could be the problem but unless it acts up for them they cannot replace the fuel pump under warranty without knowing that is the problem. My warranty is up at 60,000 miles or in August 2010 which ever comes first. I am taking the car in to them tomorrow and it is going to act up now cause it is doing it everyday and seems to be getting worse. Thanks Again and I will let you know what the outcome is if you would like.
ANSWER: This second dealer seems like an honest shop, even if they're not willing to take their best guess at Hyundai's expense (and with your understanding that without duplicating the issue they cannot be certain of the repair). So far, they've demonstrated that their primary concern is properly fixing your car and not the lining of their pockets by performing services of dubious value.
If you should continue having problems with them being unable to duplicate the issue, you might try contacting Hyundai customer assistance. Simply explain politely to them your concerns about the fact that the dealer is unable to make the problem occur but has found diagnostic trouble codes, and that you're concerned about being able to have the issue repaired while the vehicle is still under warranty. Customer assistance may be able to in this circumstance be able to have the factory representative authorize a best-guess repair.
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QUESTION: Took it in on Thursday and they finally found a problem and the only thing I was told was that I can come get the car and it is drivable but they had to order a part and that the problem has something to do with the idle and part will not be there until Wednesday. I drove it to work in the morning and then went to go to lunch and the car almost died then the check engine and air bag light came back on, I called them and he said they was worried about it and that I should not be driving it he thought he thought he stated it clearly that it should not be driven, I called my friend that was with me to find out what she had heard and they did say I was fine to drive it. The only thing the service ticket says is
#1- 1100: CUSTOMER STATES
CUSTOMER STATES THE CAR ALMOST DIES AT STOP
LIGHTS CHECK AND ADVISE
worked performed by Warranty
SOPED PART WILL BE HERE WED
I asked for a rental car because it is a warranty problem and they gave me number that I can get a rental for $25 a day which I have to pay for and I don't understand that. I then was trying to get a number for corporate or warranty department and cannot find anything. I am getting really nervous about this because the problem is getting consistently worse and at this point it is now not even drivable my warranty is up in August or at 60,000 miles I have 57,720 miles now and do not know what to do?????? Any ADVISE would be great...
Thank You
AnswerUnfortunately, alternate transportation is considered an incidental expense and is not covered by your warranty. On the other hand, the dealer could nonetheless choose to give you such transportation.
Additionally, you should have not been told it is okay to drive a vehicle with a stalling issue. Depending on when the stalling occurs, you could be placed in an unsafe situation. You may be able to use this as leverage to coerce them into giving you a loaner.
If you'd like to contact Hyundai directly, you can do so at 800-633-5151. This will generate a consumer affairs case, which should in turn be brought to the dealer's attention as well as their Hyundai dealer representative.
