QuestionQUESTION: hello john:
i purchase a 4.6 long block engine with one year warranty unlimited miles back on 8/4/09 to replace my 4.0 from 96 RR from TIDE WATER ROVERS in NC. because my 4.0 had some blowby, after delivery the engine sat at my garage for about 6 months in the plastic container that they ship the motor on (no money to pay for installation)
the engine was installed on 3/21/09 on the second day i started to hear a popping sounds from the engine it turn out to be the valley pan was inflating had the cylinder pressure tested
cylinders 1) 135 psi 2)130 psi 3)130 psi 4)118 psi
5)120 psi 6)130 psi 7)118 psi 8)133 psi
i call them (TIDE WATER ROVERS)their answer was that the piston ring had not broken in. an for the valley pan answer was that the crankcase vent tube was stopped(plug) the oil separator had been replaced on one of the valve covers after cleaning it in a hot tank the other is just open
replaced the valley pan. drove it for about 1000 miles the motor started to make a ticking noise (engine pruning)and making air farts noises after the engine was turn off
had the cylinder pressure test done again and it had gone very low 95 psi on 5 cylinders and about 110 psi on the other 3 cylinders and on the freeze plugs it had been licking.
the engine only had about 2500 miles from the time it was installed. after many phone calls to tide water rover agreed to pick the engine for warranty reappears 6/28/09 about 35 days before the warranty expired.
now that they have the engine and after inspection. they found internal rust. cylinders/heads/pistons and valves have rust/scale/pitting and they think my car was in a flood
or in a extremely wet conditions AND THEY SAY THAT THE ENGINE HAS BEEN ABUSED OR NEGLECTED THEREFORE VOIDING ANY WARRANTY
my car has not been in a flood or in extremely wet conditions
i live in palm springs California (DRY HOT DESERT)
CAN THIS BE POSSIBLE ( RUST / SCALE AND PITTING OF THE CYLINDER SLEVE / PISTON / VALVES / HEADS ) the engine was only run for about 2500 miles and it sat on the garage in a closed plastic container that they ship the motor on
now they say that they have done the heads and if i want the engine i need to pay freight parts and labor, he is charging for a head set and two hrs labor. when i pay for the engine $3250.00
with one year warranty unlimited miles (engine $2750.00 core $250.00 S/H $250.00 ) are they just trying screw me some more the engine was pick up over a month before the warranty expired
should i pay for this repears or is their responsibility
can you help me with this problem john
once again thank you Jose
ANSWER: There are three possibilities I can see:
1) The engine suffered some damage in storage before you installed it.
2) The person who assembled and then installed the complete motor in the car was not competent
3) There are issues with the engine supplier
From here I have no idea which answer applies. Perhaps all do, to some extent. I will say this: Discount suppliers of used/rebuilt engines often cut corners, in my experience. If a properly rebuilt long block motor is $7,500 and you paid less than half that sum, what's missing? Perhaps you just found the answer.
I can tell you this for sure: My company will not install discount rebuilts like that under any circumstances.
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QUESTION: hello john:
1) if the engine was stored in a dry area for 6 months and the only water that could be in contact with the engine will be the moister in the air able to get into the plastic container, here where i live palm springs California the temperature here average from 60 degrees in the winter and summer 115 degrees. humidity only happens in July and August. with this weather would it be possible to rust/scale and pitting to the point that the engine cylinders sleeves/piston/head/valves look like if it have been full of water for long period of time
2)the engine was assembled and installed by me and my brother I'm not a mechanic but I'm able to repair most of all my mechanical problems with my car's and my brother is a mechanic for over 20 yrs but not a land rover certified mechanic. at the time of we put the engine together the engine look clean from the outside/valve lifters/under crankshaft. but on the inside of the pistons we have no idea of the condition because it was a long block already assembled the only thing we had to add was
valve covers/timing chain/timing chain cover/oil pan and put the engine on
3# issues with the engine supplier there is to many
the only reason i purchase the engine from TIDE WATER ROVER #JOHN MILLER#
i did not do know who i was dealing with until after i try to get help from them. after several calls and no help. i google their name #tide water rovers) i found out that lots off people had to many problems with JOHN MILLER but you are totally correct on the issue of discount suppliers you don't all ways get what you think your getting
this is the way the engine came to me when i purchases the engine looking from the top of the engine if this was a rebuild engine they did not replaced the head bolt and when i call him to ask why they did not replaced the bolts on the heads his answer was that the bolts could be used 3 times according to him every thing in the engine had been replaced but the engine sleeves back on 8/4/08
now 8/09 he is sending me pictures of an engine that looks' like the hole engine has been under water and the under side of the heads and the sleeves are all pitted from the pictures he send me it seems like they spry some kind off chemical and the outer part of the engine looks scale out. but on the pictures that i taken before the engine was sent back to them the engine did not look any where close to the pictures hes sending to me
once again could it be possible that the inside of the piston combustion chamber get so rusted and scale to the point that it became pitted from the moister in the air in my garage like i mentioned before the temp. here averages 60 degrees in winter no rain and 115 degrees summers low humidity in July and August
John Robison thank you for the time you take to help me. your experience and the info has help me many times. EXPERIENCE and HONESTY is hard to get now days
ANSWER: Your story certainly raises some questions about the quality of the engine or the supplier, but that's about as far as I can go. It's not my place to get in the middle of customer/vendor disputes. All I can really say is, we would not have accepted that kind of engine for installation at my company because we have learned that shortcuts adn cheap engines just come back to bite us. I base that opinion solely on the quoted price; I have no knowledge of the vendor you refer to. If something is priced at half the rate for a genuine product, there is probably a reason.
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QUESTION: john thanks for your answers:
I'm sorry it was not my intention to put you in the middle of costumer/vendor disputes.
all i wanted was to get a better under standing of my engine situation
and how could it be possible to rust/scale and get pitted in a very short time if it never been under water from the time it was delivered to me.
once again: John thank's for taking the time to help
AnswerI guess it's a matter for common sense. Do other metal objects left in the same environment get rusty? If i left pliers out for a weekend on the counter at my folks place in south Georgia, they would rust up solid. Other places, they stay clean and shiny.
There's just no way for me to know any of the hard facts so I don't think it's appropriate to put myself in the middle. I've already told you I would not have made the choices you did, as regards supplier/price tradeoffs. It has been my experience that those cheap discount motors turn out bad more often than not.
