QuestionOK, try and get this all done here...
As to the plates being used when it was honed, he says yes.
As to why the standard size pistons - he now says that the pistons are .005 over too
As to the carb, yes, I have had to readjust after the fix
As to the where the knock is coming from, from the top
He thinks it is now a valve train problem, and now wants me to let him replace the lifters (at my expense). No answer as to why the front jug is pissing oil all over.
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Followup To
Question -
My bike is a 1989 FLHTC. I have owned this bike since May of 2003 when I traded my '76 Shovel for it. In this time, numerous repairs have been made to what was supposed to be a "brand new" engine.
First mechanic at the local Harley shop where I bought it (bike was under warranty at the time - this bike is the first bike I've had that I didn't do all the work myself) didn't know how to adjust adjustable pushrods and messed up my Jim's lifters, which he replaced with stock HD lifters.
The bike has an Andrews EV27 Cam, a Dyna 2000i ignition, and I recently replaced the clutch assembly.
Approximately five weeks ago, I had a mechanic from another shop, that was recommended by a borther, take a look at my bike for what I thought were electrical or wiring problems. He claimed there was a loose wire and fixed it (still do not know which one, he has not told/shown me). I asked him to look at the cylinders as the base gaskets were leaking - nothing that I didn't know about. He ended up replacing the top end and I got the bike back 3 weeks ago, after being put off time and time again over a two week period. The bike came back with a broken oil sensor, which has since been replaced.
At the 430 mile mark on new top end, I started hearing a knocking in the engine. (Note: not a tapping!) I called mechanic up and told him, he said not to worry too much about it, and that he would catch me in a few days and look at it. When the bike was at the 700 mile mark, he told me that he thought the pushrods just needed adjusted. Not a problem...planned on doing it after I returned home last night. When the bike hit the 720 mile mark, oil starting leaking excessively out of the top and bottom of the front cylinder, brought her home easy the rest of the way. I also discovered last night that when the mechanic did the "new" top end, etc. he did not even bother replacing the filter in the air breather. The filter is the same one I put in there myself several months ago.
Specifics on what was put in and/or done a few weeks ago:
new bottom half of jugs
West Coast pistons - standard size
cylinders were honed by hand
valves were lapped by hand (don't understand this, there was nothing wrong with them)
.005 over rings in cylinders
new plugs - as a side note here, I had to replace plugs within the first week of getting it back
new gaskets
Right before the oil leak started, compression was checking at 178 on the front cylinder - i checked it due to the knocking noise. Did not check back cylinder at that time. As of five minutes ago, compression was checking as 170 on the front cylinder, and 155 on the back cylinder. Plugs in both cylinders are both covered in black soot, with the front one being the worst. And now a new development. When I went to check the compression, you could hear a louder knocking sound - as if the piston was being thrown against something. The strange thing is, this only happened when I checked the front jug, it did not do it on the back jug.
I have called the mechanic and he is again putting me off. Says he will try and be here tomorrow to look at it.
Any ideas on what is going on? I have a few ideas of my own, but want a second opinion before he again gets ahold of my bike!
Answer -
Sounds like you have some problems. I do have a few questions.
(1) When he honed the cylinders, did he use pressure plates to compress the cylinders?
(2) I am assuming he installed new pistons. Why did he use standard pistons and oversize rings?
(3) Since you have black soot on the plugs, means running rich, did he do anything to the carb?
(4) Where does the knock sound like its coming from? Top end or bottom end?
Get back with me
Mike
AnswerNoises are hard to tell on here due to the fact that I cant hear them, but I can give you some ideas.
First, your with that few of miles on the new top end your compression should be within 10 PSI on both cylinders. So you are having some leak by on the back cylinder.
Second, if the bike was running fine before the work was done, then there was really no reason the change the jets in the carb. That is why you have black soot on the plugs.
Third, as to your knock. There are several things that can cause this. If the cylinders were not honed correctly or honed to big, you might be getting piston slap. Another thing is to check the bearings on the lifters. To check them, run the bike till it gets warm or till you hear the noise. shut the bike off and put it on a lift. take out the spark plugs and put it into 5th gear. Remove the clip on the cover of the pushrods, so you can see them, and rotate the rear tire until the front exhaust is all the way at the bottom of the stroke. What youa re looking for is a lose pushrod. Do this for each one. If you find one, wait till the bike cools off and adjust it. run the bike and if you hear a knocking again recheck it. If its lose then you probably have a bearing going out on the lifter. Another thing to check is the screen in the oil pump to see if tis dirty. that is where the lifters get their oil from. If the screen is dirty, not enough oil will get to the lifter to pump it up all the way.Another thing to check is the cam bearing. It will make a knocking noise if it is going out.
Fourth, since you have leaks again, I would think that the mech would redue his work with that few of miles at no cost to you. I would have him pull both cylinders and show you what they mic at. With .005 over pistons they should mic at 3.5030 with a plus/minus of 0.0002. If bigger than that then you hav to go to a bigger piston or you will burn oil later.
Let me know how it turns out
Mike
