QuestionQUESTION: Hi Todd, I have a 1997 Pontiac Bonneville SSE V-6 3800 and the car has 168,000 miles on it. But the car runs and looks great. I recently replaced the radio because the LED and the CD player did not work anymore. The radio works fine now. I did get a Check Engine Light with Code (P0440) and I cleared that code since, but about four weeks later that code came back. After checking the EECS that light did not come back on
The problem that I’m having is with the Electronic Climate Control System, the other day we had a lot of snow and rain in New York so I used the Auto and the rear window defogger, and now when I turn the car off and exit the vehicle and close the door, the outside temperature display stays on. Even if I set the factory Theft-Deterrent the temperature display remains on. When I walk away from the vehicle and return later to the car the heater and the fan motor is on and running inside the car without the car being started.
Now when I start the car, the Traction Control Light is off and I can’t use the button to turn it back on. The Driver Information Center stays on showing that there a problem with the (Lamp Monitor, Hi beam/Head Lights/Park Lamp/Turn Signal/Back Up Tail/Brake Lamp Door Ajar Etc everything on the right side of the monitor). The Electronic Compass went out. I did disconnect the battery several times and by driving the car the compass came back on, and all the lights went off inside the Information Center.
But as I drove the car the LED on the radio started to flash through all the modes from the clock, cd, showing half numbers like the Led was going bad but after several minutes the flashing stopped and the radio returned to normal. After parking the car I noticed the light to the Traction Control wasn’t on anymore, and now by pressing the button I can turn it On and Off. But now the Head-Up Display stay on with the outside temperature display. After disconnecting the battery for eight hours, I started the car up and now the Traction Control light is off again and I can’t use the button, and after closing the door the outside temperature display starts to flash, and after setting the Theft-Deterrent with the Keyless Entry Transmitter, what remains on is HUD display and the outside temperature display continue to flash. I did check all fuses, and circuit breakers from inside the car and under the hood, and most of the ground wires and I had no luck. I did put it on a computer (Determinator Scan System) after scanning the system with this new problem I found codes stored in the computer but no Check Engine Light On. The codes are (P0135 Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit Bank 1 / Sensor 1), HVAC-(B1010 Outside Air Temperature Sensor Circuit, B1035 Control Assembly to Programmer Loss of Data, B1052 Programmer Loss of Keep Alive Memory Detected)
Could you please tell me if you ever had or saw a problem like this, and where can I begin to look for this problem? and if you could e-mail me back at Congoriver@aol.com Thank You for your time… Jeff
ANSWER: Hey Jeff:
I think you have multiple issues here But where to start??? You may have an issue withe the RAP module which is retained accesory control module. That keeps the accessories on after the key is turned off. Does the radio stay on or is it just the HVAC control head? The codes in the engine control module I don't think have anything to do with the other issues. That engine code could be a blown heater fuse for the oxygen sensor(s) The codes in the HVAC I don't think will cause this issue either. The outside temp sesnor will make the HVAC work erratic but not keep it on. The B code loss of data is puzzeling. this car had wahat was called uart communications which was an old version of bi directional communications between all the modules on the car. If you had one module in that data stream going bad or has a bad power or ground it can effect the other modules attached to each other. It gets a bit confusing and with out a service manual you are just going to spin you wheels and go in circles.. I don't have an easy answer for you and I think I'm confusing you. The best thing to do is to take this to either a dealer or a "GOOD" repair shop that is well versed in electrical system repairs to get this looked at. Even if they tell you what's wrong it may be something you can fix your self. The only thing is is it's a module that went bad some of them you need a GM scan tool to set up the module to work in your car. Even if you were to get a used part if it was not in a car with the EXACT same options it may not work with out being set up/ptogrammed. Hope it hleped some :}
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QUESTION: Hey Todd, to your question does the radio stay on or is it just the HVAC control head. The radio stays on until I open the door then it goes off. The only thing is on is the exterior temperature display on the HVAC control head flashing, and the heads up display showing through the windshield. then by it self the heater will turn on.. Jeff
ANSWER: The radio and light staying on untill the doors are opened is normal if the radio does turn off then the problem may not be the rap module. The temp flasking on the head is just letting you know there is a code in the system more than likely from the temp sesnor. I just looked at the wire schematic for that car and the HUD and Auto climate control share the same fuse and share the same gound So that me be the missing link. The ground is #g105 and it up on the frame rail by the battery make sure that one is clean and tight. Also on that care there are ones on the inner fender well make sure they are clean and tight as well. That fuse is not part of the Retained system so when that stuff is on check the fuse labeled cruise a/c to see if it remains powered up when the key is off. Attached is the RAP system normal opertaion:
Retained Accessory Power (RAP) allows the radio, power windows and the sunroof (if equipped) to operate for approximately 10 minutes after turning the ignition switch to OFF.
Battery voltage applies at all times from the RH IP fuse block RAC/TRUNK REL fuse 2 to the remote function actuator (RFA) module, and from the RH MaxiFuse® Block IGN SW Fuse. When the ignition switch turns to ACCY or RUN, voltage applies from the IP Fuse Block WPR/WSHR Fuse to the RFA Module. When the ignition switch turns to the OFF position, the RFA module senses the action and energized the RAP relay by grounding RAP relay terminal 86. With the RAP relay energizes, battery voltage from the RH Underhood Fuse Block IGN SW Fuse powers the radio. The RAP controlled components operate for approximately 10 minutes or until any door opens. If any door opens, the RFA module deengergizes the RAP relay by removing the ground source from RAP Relay terminal 86, thus discontinuing power to the components. The 10 minute time interval resets by turning the ignition switch from RUN to OFF.
Good luck :}
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QUESTION: Hi Todd, this is a follow up question with my 1997 Pontiac Bonneville SSE V-6 3800.
The Electronic Climate Control System.
Previously you answer a few questions with my HVAC system. And you told me that the HUD and Auto climate control share the same fuse and share the same ground so that may be the missing link. The ground is #g105 and it up on the frame rail by the battery make sure that one is clean and tight. Also on that car there are ones on the inner fender well make sure they are clean and tight as well.
Well I checked the ground wires near the battery and they were clean and tight. And for the ones inside the inner fender, I could not find. But I did find ones attached to the outer fender well and they were also clean and tight. And when I do disconnect the negative side of the battery, and the second ground wire off of the negative terminal which is located right above the battery and attached to the fender the cable has a very bad spark when reconnected.
You also said that fuse labeled cruise a/c is not part of the Retained system so when that stuff is on check the fuse labeled cruise a/c to see if it remains powered up when the key is off. Attached is the RAP system normal operation:
Well I also checked that fuse, and it is fuse (5-A) Automatic A/C Control, Base Cluster, Cruise Control and it does have full powder when the ignition switch is OFF in fact the hole IP fuse box on the driver’s side has power when the ignition switch is OFF. I removed the HVAC Control Head from the dash panel and tested the plug for power, and found that the brown wire # 11 terminal has full powder to the unit. When tested for power the fan blower motor came on without the HVAC head attached. And with the diagram of the relays I have for under the hood Maxi Fuse® Block shows that there is Six (6) relays in that box, and two of them shows a blower relay, blower speed relay and where the picture show those two relays the spots are blank. There are only four (4) relays but I did tried disconnecting all four and the blower motor did stay ON. No luck.
I do notice when I reconnect the battery negative side the blower motor comes on it’s always in the auto mode. (A/C, Auto). And sometimes when I turn the fan to high I find that the A/C auto is on, but every now and then I have to tap the fan motor under the hood to get it going.
You also said that battery voltage applies at all times from the RH IP fuse block RAC/TRUNK REL fuse 2 to the remote function actuator (RFA) module, and from the RH Maxi Fuse® Block IGN. RFA module deengergizes the RAP relay by removing the ground source from RAP relay terminal 86, thus discontinuing power to the components.
What is the RFA module and where is that located, and do you think it maybe the RAP relay, and where will that relay and terminal 86 be located. Todd if the blower relay is not inside the Maxi Fuse® Block where else could it be, and do you think that the blower motor has anything to do with it. I’m at a dead end. Thank you…. Jeff
AnswerIf this has auto climate control so it doesn't have a blower relay it's all part of the blower control motor mounted on the top of the heater box under the hood. It porpbaly has 2 connetos on it. as for the RAp relay it's mounted by the right hand fuse box behind the glove box. It is a black plastic box with one connector on it. If if were the rap relay The radio should keep playing untill the timer times out or you open a door.
