QuestionJohn,
Thanks again for your advice, I was able to find the carb cleaner and recleaned the carb, letting it soak overnight. I HIGHLY suggest this type of cleaner over the spray type, all of the carb parts were squeaky clean after an overnight soak in the gallon can of cleaner. It was a lot less work than scrubbing and spraying carb cleaner all over the place. I might add that it's much less toxic, in terms of fumes than spray carb cleaner. This cleaner has definitely earned a place on the shelf in my workshop for future parts cleaning :-)
Now to the juicy stuff ... after the cleaning, I was able to notice a slight improvement, but it still died at full throttle without the choke and required gentle changes in the throttle.
As you suggested, I checked/bypassed the fuel solenoid, using a bolt that I got from the parts shop. I cut my own gasket from one of the extra gaskets in the carb rebuild kit to make sure that it didn't leak, when using the bolt. After priming the carb and getting it started, the symptoms/problems totally disappeared. I no longer have to be gentle when adjusting the throttle, leaving the choke on too long after starting it will actually make it try to bog down, and I was able to buzz around the yard engaging and disengaging the PTO at full speed with no hesitation at all. It may need to have some tweaking to the mixture screw, but so far it's 1000 times better than it was before.
I checked with a local Briggs Dealer for the fuel solenoid (Part# 397266) and it's $72, so my question is if it's really needed, since we can bypass it with a $.50 bolt, washer and a piece of carb gasket cut to the size of the washer? Obviously, if I was trying to sell this to someone else, I'd want to replace it, but since I am aware that it's been bypassed, is it worth putting $72 into a $500 mower? If it needs to be replaced, is there somewhere online that I can find a better price? The lowest I've seen it online for is $62 + shipping.
Thanks again for your help and advice to help solve this issue in a quick manner.
Jeremy
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Followup To
Question -
John,
Thanks for your advice. I checked the fuel solenoid and it has 12.02 volts with the key turned on and the engine not running. Is this the right voltage or should it be checked with it running as well?
I did rebuild the fuel pump with the carb rebuild kit, is it worth a shot to test the fuel pressure that it's pulling from the tank? Could this be low or are we disproving this as using the choke provides enough gas for high idle/mowing speed? If it can be tested, what PSI should the pump be pulling?
The other thing that may or may not add value here is that the battery isn't the best in this mower. When I picked it up, the gentleman was using a "battery buddy" to start the mower each time. I brought it home and used my battery charger on it, charged it overnight and it holds a charge for at least a week. If the mower doesn't start right away, too much cranking will kill the battery and require the use of the charger again, but it usually starts right away. I was holding off dumping another $20 into a battery, until I got the real issue fixed. Do you think the battery would have anything to do with the issue? I ruled it out, because it does start/crank/restart if it's charged and you're not continuously cranking on the engine. I just ran the mower yesterday and it sat in the garage overnight and still has 12.36 volts.
I did use the spray carb cleaner, rather than an overnight soak ... is there a type/brand of cleaning solution that I should get and where is the best place to buy the right product? I've checked the nearest auto parts stores and all are currently out of stock, but there are two more to check with in the morning.
Thanks again for your help and advice.
Jeremy
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Followup To
Question -
I recently purchased a used Simplicity 6216 Riding Mower with a B&S 16 HP Engine - Smooth Quiet Twin Cylinder - Model # 402707 0145 01 85081612. When I bought the mower, it would only start by pouring fuel in the carb (priming) and would stay running after it was started, only when the choke was fully on, but would die when the blades were engaged.
In an effort to solve the problem and give the mower a small "tune up", I've done the following:
Replaced Spark Plugs (gapped correctly)
Replaced Air Filter and Prefilter
Replaced Fuel Filter
Changed Oil
Cleaned/rebuilt carb and fuel pump, replacing parts with B&S Kit # 694056
While replacing the fuel filter, I noticed that the fuel lines were dry rotted and badly cracking, leaving black dusty "gunk" in the fuel filter and had it almost completely plugged. I've replaced all of the fuel lines and used new clamps.
After all of this ... the mower still has the same problem, but not as severe. It no longer requires fuel to be poured in the carb (priming) and will restart after it dies, unlike before. I've tried my best to set the mixture and idle speed, but it seems that no matter what setting(s) are used, it still requires the choke for the engine to run with any power. I can get it up to about 3/4 throttle without the choke, but adjusting the throttle too rapidly or giving it full throttle will make the engine sputter and die. Without the choke, engaging the blades at 3/4 throttle makes the engine immediately die.
By opening the choke 3/4 to 1/2 way, I can get the throttle up to full speed without it dying and it seems to be pretty responsive, not as touchy as without the choke. I can also gently engage the PTO to get the blades on and mow a few passes in my yard, but I am still relying on the choke and the keyword here is gently. Any rash changes in speed/throttle can and probably will cause the mower to die.
I've tried just about everything I can think of, removed the carb twice and cleaned with carb cleaner/compressed air. The float seems to be fine, there's fuel in the bowl and all the passageways seem to be clear. Both plugs are getting spark, although the plugs do seem a bit oily/wet. I installed a clear fuel filter, so I can see if there's any debris in the fuel lines, but since changing all the fuel lines, the fuel filter is clear. All of my symptoms seem to suggest that it's not getting enough fuel, but I am at a loss as to where to go from here.
Do you have any advice that you can offer? Thanks in advance for your time and help.
Answer -
Hello Jeremy:
Did you Check the Fuel Shutoff Soleniod? Did you Soak the Carburator Overnight in Cleaning Solution(carburator cleaner)? It takes an Overnight Soak to Properly Clean a Carburator. Spray Cleaners just Loosen the Varnish inside the Carburator. Reclean the Carburator. You can View a Breakdown of the Engine at this Addy http://www.outdoordistributors.com/ and click on the B. Then Select Briggs and Stratton. Then Select Dont have Part Numbers. Then Scroll Down to the #40 and Click on it. Then Scroll Down to the 402700 File and Click. This will Download a Breakdown of the Engine. Hope this Helps. I am here if you Require more Assistance. Let me know what Happens, Please. I enjoy knowing the Outcome. Thanks.
Good Luck
Respectfully
John
Answer -
Hello Jeremy:
The Pump is Doesnt Pull Fuel, it Pushes Only. The Gas is Gravity Fed to the Inlet of the Pump. To Check the Fuel Shutoff Soleniod, Remove the Soleniod and Replace it with a Short Bolt of the Same Diameter and Threads. Start and Run the Engine. If the Engine Runs as Designed, then the Soleniod is Bad. If No Change in the Engine Running, then the Soleniod is Most likely Good. Im Still Leaning towards the Carburator. These are Hard to Clean and Really need to be Soaked Overnight. Most People Purchase Gunk Carburator Cleaner, but Any Carburator Cleaner will do. Not the Spray. From your Description, it Sounds like the Varnish is Still In the Main Jet of the Carburator and by Using the Choke you are Pulling the Required Gas through the Choke Port of the Carburator not the Main Jet. Hope this Helps. I am here if you Require more Assistance. Let me know whatHappens, Please. I enjoy knowing the Outcome. Yhanks.
Good Luck
Respectfully
John
Answer Hello Jeremy:
You can Leave the Soleniod Out and Replaced with a Bolt. However I suggest you Install a Cutoff in the Gas Line to the Carburator and Turn Off the Gas Flow to the Carburator when Not Using the Mower. That is the Purpose of the Soleniod. Sometimes the Float Needle in the Carburator doesnt Seat Properly and Gas Floods the Carburator and the Crankcase. Hope this Helps. I am here if you Require more Assistance. Thanks.
Good Luck
Respectfully
John
