QuestionSomeone else asked a similar question before and I assumed that store is the same one at The block at city of orange in CA. I checked the warning issued time, it was the time we were still in the shop eating donuts. I don't know if the donuts shop actually get their share from the towing company or something like that. They can definitely make more money than selling their donuts since angel stadium is around there. I believed that if so many people had complained about this time issue or not knowing leaving the store will disqualify us as a customer, base on the principle that you should also protect your customer, they should make their sign more "understandable". I feel that they try to be tricky to get more customer to unaware of this "trespass" issue. By the way, I went back after I got my car and it was midnight and they were still towing the car at the krispy kreme when there were only 3 cars there. Also, since they stated "customer only", don't they need to enter the shop and confirm that the owner of the vehicle is not there? There are a lot of "disqualified" customers were in the towing place last night and I think it will be very easy to fight for this.
AnswerWell, I know that California laws - vehicle codes spell out most everything about towing from private property and such. They actually have some rules which do not make sense to towers or law enforcement agencies after the last go around on making it more "customer friendly".
Translated, that means that people who trespass get more rights than the property owner (the ones who bought the property and pay the taxes) have.
Things like the 1 hour law, requiring tow companies to have ATM's or ATM style machines to accept Credit and Debit cards. Then there are the penalties for violation of the rules which tow companies have to risk when doing towing.
The time issue is always going to be one big issue, how does one prove that they were a customer of a business and exactly how long is one considered a customer of the business.
A "TO GO ORDER" from a fast food place, or Donut shop is a perfect example. You park in the Krispy Kreme lot, go in and order 1 donut and a drink to go, and take off. Lets see, since you brought up the Angel Stadium issue, can you go to the ball game and still be considered a "customer of Krispy Kreme" in the 1st inning or the 5th, or the 9th?
How long is enough to be a customer. Is it the time it would take to eat the donut and drink the drink?
10 minutes past that, or 4 hour, or 4 days. This is kind of a loop hole that motorists try to use to get out of the tows. I get questions all the time where the person was towed after parking in the store lot and maybe 2 hours later they "find out they were towed" while in 7-11.
Now as to making more money towing vehicles instead of making donuts. that I take implies that the Krispy Kreme store is getting a kick back from the tow company. I will tell you that the same rules which you are accusing the tow company and Krispy Kreme of violating, also prohibit "kick backs" in any way, shape or form.
So I doubt that it happens and for sake of an example, lets say that the tow company was to "kick back $20.00 for every car towed". Sounds like it would be as you say, more profitable than making donuts, but the fines for the violations would be in the hundreds or thousands of dollars for each violation. So is that profitable?
Now signs are always brought up as to the issue of "legal or illegal". Just how big should a sign be in your mind?
And what should it say, what colors should they be, and how many languages should it be in???
All of these are spelled out in the laws. Can you imagine how it would look if each parking space in a lot was required to have signs 2 foot by 3 foot in size, in English, Spanish, Chinese.
And since you mentioned Krispy Kreme, most of them only have like 20 to 30 spaces maximum. Lets say that there are 5 employees working in the store. So you take 5 spaces out of the 30 in the example. So you have the store like the one you mentioned close to the stadium.
So the manager looks outside and sees the whole lot full of cars, and has 2 customers inside the store eating donuts...
Are any of the vehicles there at that point considered "A CUSTOMER" vehicle???
So they call the tow company, say that the 5 vehicles are employees (point them out) and the 2 people say that the blue mustang and the chevy pickup are theirs... SO the Rolls Royce, Porsche, the 2 Audi's and such are not employees or customer vehicles...
Was that what you would consider a good attempt at notification or verification of customers vehicles at that point? Oh I forgot that you drove the Porsche (see I gave you a vehicle upgrade) there and bought your donut and drink and then left.
Vehicle warning time, as you brought up, well that generally is when the lot is checked for vehicles at that point. So remember I mentioned the 1 hour law of which is supposed to "BY LAW, ALLOW YOU TO TRESPASS" on the property for 1 hour before you are towed, starts.
Lets say the time of warning was 6PM, and your car was towed at 645PM, but you actually were in the store at 545 when you bought your donuts and drinks. That would be considered an illegal tow, but if the vehicle was towed at 715 then it would be legal. See what I mean about the "time issue of warnings or notices"
Retail stores have a huge problem with this, and as such some locations have spotters who watch the lot and record the time each vehicle enters the lot and the description of the people who exit the vehicle,some have started to video tape or take pictures of the issue just to establish times. Yes there are cameras both digital and video which record and display time stamps on them.
Kind of hard to fight cases like that, but as a general rule, motorists do not care about the property rights or issues of others. They just want to go do what they want to do and park where they can. I get about 10 questions a week easy, where the person parks in one lot and goes somewhere else after shopping in the original store.
So all the "disqualified customers" all seem to think that they are right, but in actuality they are not, and a small claims court judge would rule against them in 99% of the cases. (my thoughts there)....
But if you think you were wronged, you can do what ever you want with the courts, but I suggest that you take the time to research the towing laws of California. Pay close attention to VC 22658 as it is the most common section for application on private property towing.
VC 22658 linked here.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22658.htm
Good luck and I hope this helps you
