Towing Issues: CA private property towing issues, property delineation, citation number

Question
Richard,
Thanks for your response and help - I'll do some more research and continue
to complie the proof, especially on the notification issue.

There are some other issues that may factor in...   The signs at one entrance
and one small corner of the parking lot basically said "Guests Only" parking
with notification that they would tow - no other info such as citation number
or phone number.  Since we live in an Archstone apartment (we've lived in 3
this year) which has many complexes that offer short term, corporate and
furnished housing, and since the parking area, though divided by a fence, is
10 feet from our leasing office, I thought the situation was very ambiguous.  
We've been parking there for three months with no issues until now. The
hotel dumpster is on the apartment complex property and I've seen their
maid cross through the parking lot exit with a cart to use the dumpster.
Frequently their hotel shuttle travels through our property and I've seen
Fedex trucks enter on our property to make a delivery to the hotel.   I have
video of the three situations I mentioned in a 10 minute period. I also have
pictures of the entrances that lack signs with a Newspaper dated 1/2/07 in
the frame.

They did mention that it appeared that one of their signs was taken down at
the second entrance, but that no sign ever existed at the third entrance.

So if I were to try small claims, I would primarily aim to use the legal techincal
issues, but secondarily I'd say that the parking and property delineation
situation is somewhat ambiguous.

Regarding the 96 hour issue, they claimed to have put a notice on our car on
12/22 (or thereabouts) when it was parked in a different space on their lot -
we never received this.  What would they need to prove they did this... a
picture?... or a log entry in their journal?,  a copy of the notice?  etc.    The
only thing that would seem indisputable is a picture with the notice...

Also, after we were towed, there was a palm sized dent on the front center
part of the hood.  I'm assuming it was caused by trying to push the car onto
the flatbed tow truck.  Currently I'm holding the hotel ultimately responsible,
though I was wondering if I should pursue holding the tow truck company
directly accountable instead. (An estimate came to about $670.)

Sorry to burden you with all the details, but any help would be greatly
appreciated.  Thanks again and have a happy new year!



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The text above is a follow-up to ...

-----Question-----
Richard -
On 1/1/07, I was towed from a hotel parking lot whose exit leads into our
apartment complex in Mountain View California (Santa Clara County).   I have
a two part question.   In terms of the new CA towing from private property
laws, is it legal for them to tow if they did not contact the police department
as per: "the owner or person in lawful possession of any private property,
within one hour of notifying, by telephone or, if impractical, by the most
expeditious means available, the local traffic law enforcement agency, may
cause the removal of a vehicle parked on the property to the nearest public
garage."  They did not contact any agency before the towing.

Also regarding the issue of: "the vehicle has been issued a notice of parking
violation, and 96 hours have elapsed since the issuance of that notice" - can
you tell me how that might be determined, or how must a company prove
that.  We park our car in that lot because the delineation of property between
the hotel and apartment is very ambiguous.  The hotel has stated that we
have parked our car in the lot on numerous occasions and that they issued a
notice once before, as well as second time when they actually towed our car,
and that they have pictures of our car parked in several spaces.  We never
received the first notice they claimed to have put on our car, and our car has
never been parked in the that lot for 96 continuous hours.   When they did
tow us, they put a notice on our car on 12/31/06 and towed us on 1/1/07.  
We found that notice on the ground where our car was supposed to be.   

I noticed on Fresno's government website, they added this to the 96 hour
clause:
(new) NOTE: Vehicle must be issued a parking citation by the appropriate law
enforcement agency. Posting of the property not required. 96 hours after the
vehicle has been cited the property owner or his/her agent may have the
vehicle removed. FPD or appropriate agency notification is required at time of
removal.

Is this just Fresno, or is it for all of CA?

http://www.fresno.gov/Government/DepartmentDirectory/
PlanningandDevelopment/CodeEnforcement/Signs/Posting.htm

The city of Mountain Views website only states that No Parking/Tow signs
must be posted at all entrances to tow, which the hotel did not comply with.  
They had a sign at only 1 of the 3 entrances.  

Would we have any chance in small claims court?
Thanks for any help,
LiPo
-----Answer-----
Well congratulations for doing some research...

California laws changed on Jan 1 2007 for impounding vehicles from private
property.

First the 1 hour before call is not there anymore.
Second I believe that the 96 hour rule is for places which do not have signs.

As to the CLEARLY DEFINED parking areas,  I think you know that you were in
the motel parking lot.. Correct ?

That is admission of fault already.

Now the notice, sorry to say but it does not require it to be big sticky notes, a
simple piece of paper can work and if it was there for the time listed (12/31
to 1/1) it could of blown off.

Also of note, is conflicts with city and state laws regarding notifications.  
Cities do have some additional laws which are required to be done some
times.  

NOW ON TO THE PROBLEM  

under the new California law, (of which I have been talking to a few friends
who run out there) the notification laws are real confusing ..  One part says
the property owner makes the call, one says the tow company, one says
within 1 hour of towing, one says 30 minutes of towing....
I have seen towers talking about that issue and some police departments are
not accepting notification from tow truck companies some are not accepting
notifications from the property owners.... Some are requiring written
notifications and some are requiring faxes now...

The new law is very confusing.. I am having trouble following it myself (thank
goodness I am in Alabama)

I hope this helps, and the small claims court deal will be something that you
need to research and make sure you have all the proof available to you...  
Including the lack of notification or if they did notify and the police did not
record it.

The sign issue is something though, but its also hard to say its wrong.
Remember signs do get vandalized or removed.  

Answer
well while I am not a lawyer or play one on TV or the Internet, I can say that you need to have all the documentation you can possibly think of having.  Over kill works good on that .

Now as to the common use of driveways and property I do not think that will matter much. But never know.  

I would at least push for the motel / apartment to get in compliance with the laws. There are penalties for the property owners I believe for not being in compliance.

Now the dent in the hood, it might be from the tow company, or it might of been someone who was walking past before it was towed.  It might be hard to prove who did it...

Good luck and what ever the outcome I hope that things work out for you.