Triumph Repair: Spitfire not starting..... contd.., starter solenoid, volt coil

Question
QUESTION: "If you can't get a few seconds of run on starting fluid YOU HAVE NO IGNITION OR NO COMPRESSION!!"

Howard,
The compression was not "exactly" the same on all cylinders I just rounded the numbers, but all were well within the 10% of each other. I am confident the compression is correct.
On the spark issue, I do not have a thick pencil lead spark. Now, I do have a new 6 Volt coil, I do have 12 v going to the coil when cranking the engine. I am starting to think I have voltage but maybe not enough current. Maybe the staring relay is defective as far as the contacts for the coil switching from 12 v start to 6 v run? Have you run across this before?

ANSWER: Steve, you have to tell me what the compression was or I think you have a faulty compression gauge.

The starter solenoid not the relay switches the power to the coil from direct 12v from the solenoid to 6v from the ignition switch through a resistor wire. (If your car has that bypass system)

I learned working in dealerships to not look for a specific item that may stop an engine from running but to test the three systems that make an engine run. (Compression, Fire and Fuel) I also learned to do it in that order. In most of the dealerships I worked in we had a scope that could show all of the primary and secondary of the ignition system in just a few seconds. But many shops and individuals don't have that equipment so they have to resort to other methods. These methods work 100% of the time but you have to follow the order and not skip anything.

It boils down to a clear fact and that is, if an engine does not fire off on starting fluid you have either a compression problem or and ignition problem. Once you establish which it is then you start testing that system. It is no use guessing which part has failed until tests show that part as failed. If you are sure the compression test was good then you for sure have an ignition problem.

To test the ignition system use an ohm meter on the coil wire and plug wires and clean the plugs. Closely examine the cap and rotor for carbon tracks and spin the engine over with the cap off and use the coil wire to try to jump a spark to the center of the rotor (that tests the rotor for an internal short to the shaft that can't be easily seen. Try to jump a spark to the cylinder head to confirm the blue spark and a thick spark. Then put the clean plugs in and check the ignition timing to see that it is correct.

Then spray starter fluid into the intake and it will fire off, if only for a few seconds.

Try that and let me know but don't skip anything thinking "That is probably OK" and bypassing it.

Howard



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Howard,
Got it running. Found a bad connection on the start relay. Connection was good enough for a weak spark but not good enough to run. Cleaned it up and she started right up...... now for the siezed clutch. Amazing what sitting in a barn will do to mechanicals. Thanks for your thoughts and input. I've learned a lot.

Steve

Answer
Glad to hear you got it running. A stuck clutch was a common problem with MGs and Triumphs when sitting for a long time.

I was able to break loose about 50% of them with a procedure from my motorcycle days.

You need a long straight road and no stop lights or many side roads. Start the engine and warm it up then shut it down and with the car aimed down that road put it in 1st gear and start the engine. With the engine warm it will start up and jerk forward and speed up then level off with the throttle so there is no pull nor drag and slip the gear lever into neutral and ease off a little on the RPM and stick it into 2nd gear and accelerate again and level off again and repeat the process to get into 3rd and do it again to get into 4th gear and run up your speed in 4th gear to about 3500 RPM on the tach. Then hold the clutch pedal to the floor and go hard on the throttle and off quick and do that several times. I would get about half of them to break loose. I did so many that way I got where I could do it with little to no gear clash when shifting.

The reason you have to be in 4th gear is that puts the max load on a clutch and the reason you need 3500 RPM is that is the max torque of the engine. The hard on and off of the throttle will break loose about half of the ones I tried it on. If that don't work you have to remove the engine or gearbox to get to the clutch.

Howard