QuestionQUESTION: I just bought a 2009 Infiniti G37X with 4,600 miles on it from an Infiniti dealership. The dealership is about 300 miles away from me so the entire deal was done over the phone and the payment was made via a certified bank check. The car was described to me as being perfect and in like new condition. I was told there was nothing wrong with the car. The first question I specifically asked the sales person on the phone was if the car had ever been in an accident or had any paint/body work performed on it. I was told that there was no accidents on the Carfax report and they were not aware of any paint work. I bought the car on good faith that they were telling the truth and since the car only had 4,500 miles on it I felt good that the condition was going to be as described. Upon receiving the car I found out the tires were severely cracked and looked melted, red over spray underneath both front and rear bumpers, door jam was very rough and has lots of orange peel, drivers seat had been repainted with over spray on center console, dent in front fender, and clear coat drippings on both of the bumpers and door. I feel that this car has had some bad history before to have had all this paint work done with only 4,500 miles on it. I have taken pictures of everything that I found. Do I have any recourse on this subject? I would not have bought this car if I would have known about all this damage. I look forward to hearing your response.
Car Guy
ANSWER: Hi Brian,
Sorry to hear about your troubles. First off I have a couple of questions:
1. What state are you in? and what state did you buy the car in?
2. How much time has transpired since you bought the car?,
3. How much time did you wait before you brought your concerns to the dealers attention? What did they tell you?
4. Are the Carfax AND the Auto Check reports both clear or is there an accident alert on any of them
5. You made this comment: "Upon receiving the car I found out the tires were severely cracked and looked melted" Was the car brought to you by someone from the dealership? Did you take possession of it at their lot? Your house? A car with 4500 miles on it should have tires that look brand new on it ...were they the factory tires?
6. Have you taken the vehicle to a body shop and had a professional body and paint expert confirm any of your suspicions ? If so what did he say?
7. Was the car sold to you as a certified pre-owned car? Because if it wasn't certified it should have been often times the ones that should be but aren't are disqualified from the program if they have any paint work on them at all.
The reason I ask you all of this is because in most states there is no 72 hr right of cancellation of a contract ... the exception to that, at least here in the PNW (Oregon) is when you take possession of the car anywhere other than at the dealership... if they drove it to you and you complained in the right time frame then at least in most western states you would have more legal support
I really need those answers in order to tell you what we do next. The GOOD NEWS is this: even if you have no legal leg to stand on then since it's an Infiniti Dealer and not some independent 'rock lot' gives you alot of power I am certain you don't know you have in the court of public opinion. We can talk about that if we need to go down that road. I understand that sometimes buyers get buyers remorse after making a major purchase like this. It is going to be very important that we get a reputable body shop to confirm that damage ...you can even take it into one and tell them you need a quote for your insurance to "fix the damage" then kick back and wait and see what damage he identifies and writes you up a quote for...lol. When you go have someone look, please feel no need to volunteer your entire story ... those guys circle the wagons on you quickly. Time is not our friend ... if there is a huge issue or two then we need to get written notice into the dealers hands asap. No more talking with the salesman ....the sales manager ...the Finance Manager. None of those guys have the authority to say anything but no and maybe The guy we want is the guy who can say yes ...that's the GM and the Dealer Principal
Hit me back with the info and I will check my email more often this morning
Roger
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Roger,
Thank you for your fast reply.
1. I live in Pennsylvania and the car was bought in the same state.
2. It has been roughly two weeks since the time that the check was sent. I took physical delivery of the vehicle on November 1st at my home.
3. I brought up the dent and tires to the dealer the same day the car was delivered to me. I found out about the paint work inside/out about 5 days later and told them about it the next morning.
4. The Carfax and Autocheck are both clean with no accident history.
5. The car was delivered to me on November 1st by a transportation company that they recommended. They are the original tires.
6. I have not taken the vehicle to a body shop yet.
7. It was not certified but they gave me the option of getting it certified for an additional $1,500 or so.
Please take a look at the pictures on Photobucket that I have taken.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v455/feelgood/2009%20G37X%20defects/
I also forgot to mention that the wheels are also messed up. They look dull and tarnished. Almost like there is silver paint sprayed over top of them. They told me they would pay to have the dent removed. They said there was nothing they could do about the tires after he personally told me that something looked very wrong with them. I just took all these pictures last night and forwarded them to the general manager of the store. He was suppose to call me back last night but I have not heard from him yet. It is also worth noting that I have only put literally 2 miles on the car since receiving it. The tires look dangerous and I did not want to drive it until I got these issues resolved.
Answer
me
Hi Brian, bad news ...your car isn't all it should be. In fact ...you need to get out of that car deal ASAP! Has it been painted on? Uhhhh Yes! I took he liberty of sending the link to your pictures around town to my body and paint expert as well as 3 of the best used car wholesalers I work with and had them all look. In short: your pictures got passed around like a hooker on a pirate ship! One of the limitations of your pictures was the lack of context. In some of them it was hard to be able to tell for sure what it was I was looking ...feel free if you want to add a few full car shots. We don't have any states that salt the roads in the winter like they do back east but I have seen a zillion of them that were brought in from states that use alot of salt. The general consensus is this: Your car has been hit and it has been painted on in a very profound and conspicuous way. Whoever applied the clearcoat should have been lined p and shot. Before i forget here is my personal email address, please send me the VIN # and any additional photos if you have any.... my email address is: roadloans@gmail.com
Let’s walk through the photos you sent the link too
#1 –No idea what this is …except to say that this is not what this part of the car is supposed to like
#2 – This part of the car has enough surplus paint on it to paint your entire car. The assembly in the middle of the page looks like an area that was hit causing somet6hing to break….is there patches of rust under the paint here?
#3 - Whoever was shooting the gun the day this was painted wasn’t a very good shot.
#4 - This is one of the ugliest areas …over spray even a derelict tagger would be disgusted by
#5 – is this picture showcasing a dirty and mill dewy inside area of the car.
#6 – Not sure what to bring too a big event like this?
#7 – nice dents
#9 - This shot of the grill clearly shows how weathered tired dull and pitted the grill is and up where the gets popped in it looks like blick!
#10 – The entire area has been painted on and it looks like “S754.00”
#13 – 14, overspray every where
#16– You are correct that is silver paint looking terrible on them…
#17 – It looks like when they sprayed your wheels gray …they got it all over the times …that’s what this picture looks like paint
#129 and #20 – Doh! …worst mess on a fabulous car’s clearcoat I have ever seen.
Without seeing the entire car a lot of this sloppy painting looks like what some detail shops do to the bottoms of cars that had just migrated from a salt state in order to hide the rust… and make it look neat and tidy… they throw the car up on a service bay rack and just start painting everything underneath black …yours looks sloppy and half assed and shoddy ,,, one of my used car guys commented that when we see cars looking as haphazard as this they have really strong accents (referring to the part of Northern Europe the people who put cars like this together all seem to immigrate from. We just say that the car has a thick accent we don’t understand lol.
OK, as I am now convinced that something stinks in Denmark … what I will be suggesting here isn’t just one sure fire plan on this…think of this sure fire plan as a multi layered approach that will be effective.
As my last bity of background let me toss this last tid bit of info into the mix: I couldn’t find anything saying the State of PA had the consumer protection law I was hoping for…but Idon’t know that they don’t either yet. What I do know for certain is that the federal government does …here is the link for more complete info and a quick program description: It’s called the “Cooling OffRule”
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/products/pro03.shtm
BRIAN - NOW WHEN YOU BROWSE THROUGH THE PROGRAM FEATURES AND RESTRICTIONS ITS OKAY IF IT’S NOT A PERFECT FIT … IT’S STILL AMMO AND IT STILL GETS USED IN THE FIRST ROUND OF BATTLE. WHEN I READ IT I THOUGHT IT SOUNDED LIKE A DECENT FIT… HERE IS THE ‘COOLING OF RULE”
“The Cooling-Off Rule: When and How to Cancel a Sale
If you buy something at a store and later change your mind, you may not be able to return the merchandise. But if you buy an item in your home or at a location that is not the seller's permanent place of business, you may have the option. The Federal Trade Commission's (FTC's) Cooling-Off Rule gives you three days to cancel purchases of $25 or more. Under the Cooling-Off Rule, your right to cancel for a full refund extends until midnight of the third business day after the sale.
The Cooling-Off Rule applies to sales at the buyer's home, workplace or dormitory, or at facilities rented by the seller on a temporary or short-term basis, such as hotel or motel rooms, convention centers, fairgrounds and restaurants. The Cooling-Off Rule applies even when you invite the salesperson to make a presentation in your home.
Some Exceptions
Some types of sales cannot be canceled even if they do occur in locations normally covered by the Rule. The Cooling-Off Rule does not cover sales that:
• are under $25;
• are for goods or services not primarily intended for personal, family or household purposes. (The Rule applies to courses of instruction or training.);
• are made entirely by mail or telephone;
• are the result of prior negotiations at the seller's permanent business location where the goods are sold regularly;
• are needed to meet an emergency. Suppose insects suddenly appear in your home, and you waive your right to cancel;
• are made as part of your request for the seller to do repairs or maintenance on your personal property (purchases made beyond the maintenance or repair request are covered).
There are a few other exclusions which could apply to your sitch or not. I just posted a short snippet … to show you what is possible …
Ready for “Unwind Brian’s Car Deal Master Plan?”
Email me the name of this dealership and I will send you back the information on it including the Dealer Principals Name, Dealer license info, bond info, corporate structure, the name of the factory area manager who handles this store and all of the right contact /email info on all of these people because when we send correspondence we will be shot gunning our concerns to as many people as possible who can turn up the pressure on things for us.
This plan is to write a nice polite, direct and factual email/letter directed to the Owner and the G Mgr. describing the problem and walking him thru the way the deal went down. At this stage we will sound reasonable and we WILL NOT be abusive or caustic. We will just describe the problem…and tell him matter of factly what we want done to resolve this problem and the time frame we expect to have this done by. We won’t threaten but we will let him know that this issue is a heat seeking missile for him and we have no intention of settling for anything short of what we tell him is fair. The owners of these stores are much different creatures than the rank and file…they are wealthy, street smart narcissists who are constantly concerned about their reputation. This man takes the long view and knows his first loss is his best one. He can also often times come across as being a prick but will generally try to do anything he can to make his customers happy …until he realizes that he can’t and then he digs in.
One of the biggest things going on in the automotive retailing world right now among franchise dealers is "Reputation Management" ...there have been a ton of different applications hit the market recently that dealers use to monitor, enhance and safeguard their online reputation. As an example check out "www.prestoreviews.com" and this youtube video which will give you a few others. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmfVhor6RYc. Dealers have figured out that with 90%+ of all car buyers hitting the internet before they step into a showroom that they better pay very close attention to what is being said about them... there are a zillion 'review' sites where customers are encouraged to write a short blub telling the world about their wonderful buying experience at "XYZ Infiniti " ... all of these ratings pages and social media websites enhance the dealers placement in the search engines and also generate traffic to both his website and store. The fact that this is an An Infiniti dealership really helps.
We are going to hit him with our intro complaining email first I will help you with this one because I have several examples in my docs files. Before we send anything go to a website called "www.readnotify.com" and sign up for the 15 day free trial and follow the instructions to be able to send the owner an email that will have tracker code in it. That way you will be notified every single time it gets opened and read and you will be told where it goes if it gets forwarded to anybody else etc. we will want to see who he forwards this too …which of his managers and it will even tell us every time he prints it out. (it’s fun to know your email has been opened) You also want to print out a copy and you want to mail it with return receipt requested certified mail. Certified mail gets people's attention. After that sit back and wait for your response. The owner of a Infiniti store will respond to a contact like that...
PREPARING FOR WAR WILL MORE THAN LIKELYNOT EVEN BE NECESSARY
There is no long term goodwill that gets built on the backs of angry customers. When I owned my store and a customer got to me with a concern …especially one that made me look like we were pulling a fast one … I always acted immediately and did what it took to make them happy (if I could) If your issue it my email box then you would have been taken out of that car by the end of the day. During that process I would try my hardest to rewind you into a different car of ours and then shower you with free oil changes until you ran out of the building screaming to salvage you as a customer if possible
IN A NUTSHELL WE ARE GOING TO IVE THEM A CHANMCE TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND FAILING THAT WE ARE GOING TO HOLD HIS REPUTATION HOSTAGE UNTIL HE MAKES THE DEAL RIGHT. YOUR HEAD WILL SPIN WHEN YOU SEE ALL OF THE DIFFERENT VENUES WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO SHARE WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD THE TERRIBLER EXPERIENCE YOU HAD WIT THIS DEALER. WE WILL COPY THE INFINITI FACTORY REPS, AN ASSORTMENT OF GOVERNMENT TYPES…. AND THE ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE A DEALER FEARS MORE THAN ANY OTHER …NO NOT THE ATTY GENERAL …I AM TALKING AOUT THE DMV ! DMV CAN FINE DEALERS BACK TO THE STONE AGE AND HAVE THE [POWER TO LOCK HIS DOORS BY CONDUCTING AUDITS AND SNAPPING HIS LICENSE TO SELL CARS. THIS STRATEGY HAS NEVER NOT WORKED AND WORKED QUICKLY ON A FRANCHISED DEALER …THEY HAVE MULTI MILLION DOLLAR INVESTMENTS TO PROTECT AND WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE YOU HAPPY IS CHUMP CHANGE TON HIM. WE NEED TO GET UP IN THIS GUYS GRILL ASAP. WHEN YOU SEND ME THAT EMAIL I WILL RESPOND WITH MY CELL PH #...I DON’T TYPE AS WELL AS I CAN EXPLAIN THE FINE POINTS TO YOU IN 10-15 MINUTES ….IN OUR EMAIL PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THEY SAID TO YOU WHEN YOU TOLD THEN THEY WERE LIARS AND CHEATS? AND WITH THE VIN I WILL BE ABLE TO TRACE EVERY PLACE THAT CAR HAS BEEN …EVERY AUCTION AND ETC.
AFTER LOOKING AT THOSE PHOTOS ITS CLEAR THAT YOUR CAR SPENT AOT OF TIME SITTING OUT IN THE ELEMENST SOMEWHERE …POSSIBLY A DRUG SIEZURE OR SOMETHING LIKLE THAT …OKAY LETS GET TO WORK AND REMEMBER….
I am with you on this until you are 100% happy with my answer... feel free to ask as many follow up questions as you need my personal email address is roadloans@gmail.com and I will be able to respond faster. My goal is to make it so when you get a survey in your email asking you to rate the service I provided you with that you will be able to give me perfect 10's and bonus points and I am committed to stick with you on this until you can!
