QuestionQUESTION: Roland, I finally got a chance to work on the 92 Lebaron(died on freeway & won’t restart) I went out & tried to start it today & it wouldn’t d anything when I turned the key. I could not even get the lights on the dash to come on so I figured the battery had died. ( When I would turn the key, nothing would happen at all). Anyway, I got a hold of used distributor (10 bucks) and I swapped out pick-up coil. After that I got another car and used jumper cables but the Lebaron still would not start. In fact, the car Lebaron still wouldn’t do anything at all. No dash light, no starter sound, no beeping. Nothing. So I thought that maybe the battery wasn’t dead. I rechecked the fuses and this time I found the 20 amp mini-fuse for the fuel pump burned out & I replaced it. After that I still couldn’t get the car to start and I still couldn’t get the dash lights to come on either. I then decided to follow your directions and use pins on the alarm wires going to the anti-theft box (above the glove-box). Well, when I opened the glove box, the alarm unit was just hanging down. After looking at the theft unit plastic case, it appears the plastic mounting part had broken off. I wonder if this was the cause of the trouble all along. However, the 21 pin plug seemed to still be plugged in tight, so maybe just a coincidence. I followed your instructions and I put the pins in the two wires (#4 & #5) and touched them together. I didn’t hear the sound of the door locks or anything else so I wasn’t sure if I did it correctly. However, after hitting the pins together, I got the dash lights back on when I would put the key in. Unfortunately, the car would still not start, but now I can hear the fuel pump when the key is turned on. I also get the 12 volts to the “T” plug when the key is on. I see 12 volts at the ASD relay socket all the time, but I only get 12 volts to the 20 amp ignition mini-fuse when the key is turned to on. So, bottom line is this. I am getting 12 volts (to ground) on both parts of the “T” plug that feeds the ignition coil, when the key is turned on. I do hear the fuel pump go on when the key is turned. Oh, and after doing your little trick with the pins at the anti-theft plug, I am now getting the check-engine light to give me the trouble codes again. I only get code “12”, and then “55” now (I checked several times and that is al I get). It was a pain but I rechecked all the fuses in the power center under the hood, and the fuse panel under the driver side dash. All the fuses check out as good. So what does code “12” mean? And what should I do next?
ANSWER: Hi Jim,
See if you are getting spark for a full 5 seconds of cranking, or not. See if the fuel pump runs for the full 5 seconds if you can get a helper to listen for it over the noise of the cranking. Check again for codes after that. The 12 code means the battery power to the engine computer was disconnected sometime in the past 50-100 key cycles, so it probably is not relevant to the no start, only the history. Check the battery clamps and the ground wire attachments at the far ends of the - clamp cable.
I can't recall if this is a 2.5 or a 3.0L but if you don't get spark then check the rotor in the distributor of make sure it conducts. If there is an egr valve on this engine then check to be sure it is closed tightly by moving the valve stem with a tip of a screwdriver inserted in the slot of the stem. Spring-action should close it tightly. If not, then lubricate it with WD-40.
If you have fuel/spark/closed egr then it should start. Be sure the battery is fully charged so that the spark is strong.
Roland
History of the problem:
92 lebaron died while driving/won't restart
Question: QUESTION: Roland, thank you again for all of your patience, I know it can be frustrating trying to help backyard mechanics with limited knowledge and skills. Anyway, I have going over in my mind the sequence of events and I think there are now actually 2 problems with my daughter’s car. After the car died on the freeway, I was able to hear the fuel pump, and I got 12 volts to the “T” plug. I was also able to get the trouble codes to come up, but all I got was code ‘55’ which said there wasn’t a problem. All signs then pointed to the coil, but the guy at the autozone tested it and said it was OK. I guess the autozone guy could be wrong so I shouldn’t completely rule out the coil. Anyway, after I was told the coil was good, I changed the rotor, distributor cap, and spark plug wires. And this is where I think I may have somehow caused the second problem, which may have something to do with the alarm. I say this because it was only after I changed the distributor rotor, cap & spark plug wires that the other problems started. And the new problems were that I couldn’t get the 12 volts at the ‘”T” plug anymore, nor could I get the trouble codes to come up at all, and I could not hear the fuel pump when the key was turned to ‘on’. And every time I tried to start the engine, the anti-theft/alarm light on the dash would start flashing. The anti-theft light would go off when we unlocked the door, but would come back on when we would try and start the car again. At this point I disconnected the negative from the battery in hopes of resetting the alarm like it does on my Ford truck. No luck. I then metered the fuses and checked for voltage on the relay socket in the power control center under the hood. I may have it confused but the power control cover/lid has a diagram of what the fuses & relays are for. Standing in front of the car, with the battery to my right side, and the distributor to my left, I found the power control box in front of the driver, near the battery. There is a 20 amp fuse, which the cover says is for ignition, and it is on the side that is next to the engine, and closest o the radiator. This 20 amp fuse is the one I think you are referring to as the 41-42 fuse, but I can’t find any numbers anywhere on the power box or lid to confirm. I wish I had checked the fuses and relay socket for voltage before changing the distributor cap. I had checked all the fuses to see if they were blown, and they were all good. But I didn’t check them for voltage in the beginning. Anyway, the 20 amp fuse, which I think is the 41-42(marked ignition) ONLY has voltage on it when the key is turned ‘ON”—no voltage with the key off. There is a 40 amp fuse, also marked ignition on the power control box lid, and it has voltage on it with the key turned “ON” and “OFF”. Then there is a relay marked ignition on the power control box lid, and it doesn’t have voltage in the socket on it at all. Either with the key ‘ON’ or ‘OFF’. By the way, when I say voltage, I am only getting about 11.3 volts. I am sure the battery is a little drained with all the attempts to start the car. Now, I might be wrong, but I don’t think the bulb for the ‘check engine’ light is burnt out since it was working fine before I changed the distributor cap, rotor and plug wires. The same thing wth the fuel pump. Everything was working fine before the car died on the freeway so I can’t imagine that a wire broke. I think something simple to find in the ignition system failed when my daughter was driving the car, and then I created another problem while I was trouble-shooting. Perhaps I triggered that anti-theft device to ‘kill’ the ignition so that it has to be reset by the DRBll tool at a dealer, as you mentioned in one of your replies. I did come across a cheap distributor at a junk yard, supposedly from a working Lebaron, that got was totaled in a crash. Perhaps the original trouble was the pick-up coil or a sensor in the distributor. Is there a way to test the pick-up coil and sensors in the distributor? Also, where exactly is the 60 pin connector that you were asking me to check? I would imagine near the PCM, but I’m not sure where that is either. I also wonder if there is a way to reset the alarm without going o the dealer to use their DRB tool. Can I just disable it permanently, or even remove it? I can always get an after-market alarm system. Anyway, I do want to say thank you again for all of your help, I do appreciate it.
ANSWER: HI Jim,
Lets pursue two lines of remedy:
The anti-theft system. As you probably know you can lock/unlock both doors using the door key to clear an alarmed status. So try that to see if the check engine light returns. If not, then drop the glove box down by releasing all the secrews around the door opening and you will find a horizontal bar above the door opening that contains the alarm module. You may want to remove the screws on either end of the bar to gain access to the module's plug. It has a 21-pin natural color plug. DO NOT REMOVE the PLUG. Rather, locate the black/light green wire on pin 5 and the light green/orange wire on pin 18. Use a couple of straight pins to probe through the wires' insulation so as to contact the conductor inside. Then touch the pins together once and separate them. That will disarm the alarm if it is in the alarmed status. Then, while things are getting sorted out do not use the door key to lock up the car, or the power door lock either. Just use the mechanical interior door lock to secure each door so as not reset the alarm again.
Then see if the check engine light works, and if so see if it shows any fault codes.*
Then go to the power box under the hood and remove the fuel pump relay and take a short piece of wire and jump between the rear pin and the front pin of the socket and listen for the fuel pump which should start and run so long as it is jumped. Don't leave it this way or drive this way as that relay is a safety feature but at least this will test whether there is voltage for the pump and whether the pump is working.
Then do the same for the ASD relay, and try to start the car.
If it won't start, see if there are any fault codes.
Do all these steps and then let me know what has happened.
Roland
PS *The PCM is mounted on the left inner fender near the battery and it has the 60-pin plug I was referring to. If the check engine light doesn't return and function then check for voltage as I described in my last email.
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QUESTION: Roland, I will try the steps you mention when I get back from church. I am assuming there is a serious reason why you stipulated NOT disconnecting the alarm plug/connector. Does the anti-theft-alarm go into that 'dead-shutdown'that you had mentioned in a previous reply? Is there a way to just get rid of the anti-theft/alarm system so I don't have to deal with it? Also, is there a way to test the pick-up coil and any(all) sensors in the distributor? I would like to test them in the distributor I got from the junkyard before I think about swapping them out with the distributor in my daughters car. Finally, if I did accidentally trigger the anti-theft systems "death-code', is there a way to reset it without going to the dealer?
Answer: Hi Jim,
You 'got it' about pulling the plug. It drives the PCM into a Hard Shutdown from which only a DRB II can revive it. The only way to pull the plug safely is to first get the engine RUNNING and only while it is RUNNING the plug can be safely pulled and the alarm thus disconnected.
The pick-up coil as far as I know is not easily tested electronically. It is photooptic and I am sure it pulses but I have not seen any description of what size pulses to expect out of the sensor. That is why I was trying to get the check engine light up and running to see if either an 11 or a 54 code appears. When you try to start the car with ASD jumped by a wire as described, if it doesn't start, then check for whether you are getting spark at the coil center wire (disconnected from the distributor and held 1/4" from the cylinder head while a helper cranks the engine).
Roland
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QUESTION: I have a V6 3.0. Where do I check for the vltage for the 5 secons? I disconnected the battery last wek in hopes it would help. I replaced the distributor cap, rotor & spark plug wires with new ones from the auto parts store. Now I have replaced the pick-up coil in the distrbutor with the used unit. I get the 12 volts to the "T" plug when the key is on (stays on while the key is on. I only get the 12 volts at the 20 amp ignition mini-fuse when the key is turned on, nothing when the key is off. Where is the EGR to check it?
AnswerThe 5 second test is to check for actual spark at one of the spark plug caps using either a clip-on spark plug tester, or a screwdriver with insulated handle inserted to touck wire inside a spark plug cap and then held with the shaft of the screwdriver 1/4" from the cylinder head. Watch for spark to jump the gap.
There is no egr unless this is a CA engine.
I am not clear as to which # fuse is the 'engine' but that is probably right.
I don't believe you should have 12V on the spark coil plug all the time. Only while cranking and for about 1 second when you turn the key to run position.
Please let me know if you get spark.
