QuestionMake 1997 Pontiac GA with LD9 2.4/Auto
History:
Basically the water pump was going out, car was still being used and topped off daily to keep engine cool. Temp gauge was monitored actively to not overheat. Headed home one day, ticking noise started, got worse, water temp went from normal middle to low, heat out vents got cool. I figure head gasket just blew. I keep going to find a stop to get off the freeway, giving it very little gas(seemed to be getting unresponsive), enough to keep going. I find an exit, and shut car off while free-wheeling a mile to a parking spot. Open hood, and engine is very hot, water started running out from the weep hole on the pump. Engine was much hotter than it should have been, as this happened about 5pm, and engine was warm to the touch 12 hours later. Gauge was obviously wrong/ wasn’t in contact with water to get reading, but it went down in mid drive when gasket likely blew.
Tried to start it, would crank much slower than before, and didn’t start.
Fast forward, I found new engine, listened to it run and bought it. Same make, year, bolted to an auto, etc.
Pulled old engine, put new water pump in new engine(Timing between cams was tight, couldn’t have slipped. The timing between the intake cam and crank may have, but doubtful). Got new engine bolted in and sensors hooked up. (At this point I had forgot to hook up the ground to the block from the battery. This bolts to the tranny side and bolts the engine/tranny together.)
I tried to start it, and got it to run on one cylinder. Ran for a minute while I inspected( noisy, almost sounded like dieseling, but it couldn’t be.) I didn’t connect the little U shaped clips on three fuel injectors because they were a pain to get off, and I wanted to make sure everything was a go before I put them back on. Well the cylinder that was firing was the one with the clip. I removed the electrical connector from the 3 cylinders that didn’t have the clips. I was able to start it again, with only the 1 cylinder. It didn’t run good, I didn’t open the throttle, etc. I then connected 2 more cylinders with clips, which running on 3 should be ok. I got in the car to start it, the car turned over much slower than before, the lights dimmed, it wouldn’t start.
I tried later still not successful. I figured the timing must be off. Proceeded to move the timing one tooth at a time, up to two teeth on the crank snout. Engine would backfire, and try, but never started. Getting close wont cut it, I looked up the proper timing on new engines. The cam gears should line up with dowl marks in the head, and the crank should be pointing right at the dot(straight up the cylinder bore). Should also be at TDC. I figured it couldn’t have slipped that much to be a turn off as I moved it 2 teeth each was as above, as eventually moved it back to the middle. I took the chain guides out, made sure the marks lined up and put the chain on and it was tight. Everything by the book. Put the guides back in, tensioner in, cover back on. Left balancer off/belt off. Tried to start it, without the airbox on the throttle body.
Moved it one tooth each way as I knew it couldn’t be off more. Tried to start, still with open throttlebody. It would backfire on some, still didn’t start.
Moved back to center, which is ‘timed’ position. I checked for spark previously, but now I was doubting. I pulled idc cover, Set it on the cam housing, and plugged it in. Checked for spark on all cylinders. It would arc a ½ inch. Was going to pull plugs to check compression. The plastic liners that go in before the rubber boots have partially melted on the bottom. Couldn’t pull plugs as it melted around the nut part where you unscrew them. (plugs may be original, don’t know, except that they worked in the engine when I saw it start before). Unplugged crank position sensor. Tried again. No spark. Plugged it back in. Spark. Put rubber boots back on with springs inside. Pushed IDC cover back on solid guiding it in right and bolted it down. Found that ground cable wasn’t bolted to the block and connected it.
Pulled all electrical connectors from injectors. All had one wire that would pulse to 12V when trying to start. Other wire would not get picked up on my sensor. Removed fuel rail from head, but left it connected to fuel and wiring. Put paper towls down to contain fuel and ran the starter a second. All 4 fuel injectors where spraying. The towls where wet with fuel in each spot. Put, old fuel rain from original engine back on( the new engine had the lines cut and the return line is quite difficult to remove, easier to change the rail. )
Engine still doesn’t start.
My thoughts,
I don’t think it could be a turn on the crank off, because that’s a lot to slip, or me to manually move.
I would really like to check compression, but to replace the fuel rail, which sprays into the intake runners, you have to move the egr valve to get a bolt in. I can hear air being pushed out the exhaust, thru there. No compression in all 4 cylinders would cause no air movement? Pulling the plugs is the problem not being able to check compression, and honestly all I want right now is for it to start.
Could having the MAF sensor connected, but having the airbox off cause the engine not to start. This was off because it was easier to work on and I could give it a squit of fuel before I verified the injectors worked.
The first time it got turned over, after removing the fuel rail I saw fire come out one cylinder intake runners, so spark must be happening, in at least one.
How did the starter crank without the primary negative cable not bolted down, but possibly just rubbing the block. Only the little 14 gauge wire bolts to the radiator support was firmly attached. Could I have melted a ground wire? All fuses under the hood have been checked and are good.
The theft light stays lit, but always has when it isn’t running/ or trying to start. I have preformed the reset function, but after 10 minutes it goesnt go out, so I don’t think this is the problem. No ECU, etc have been moved, only the long clock with manifolds.
All connections have been rechecked, etc. I will gladly recheck, and am for open advice.
AnswerHey James:
Wow that long of a question deserves a respoce for sure. So here goes. You need to check the compression on this engine bar none. I know you said the bootes melted to the plugs but you have to get them out down the road anyways you may as well try it now. I don't like the fact that it backfired out the injector holes??? If I read that right. That would indicate a valve timing issue or even some valve that got tweeked and are not closing. 2 teeth off shouldn't have touched the valves but it is off enough especially on the exhaust cam to make it not run. the correct timing on this is the hooles do have to line up with the cam gears and the holse in the rear of the timing cover and the crank gear is at 12:00 ther is a mark on that gear and a mark on the cover that have to line up. Make sure you are releasing the tension out on to the chain before you put the timing cover back on.. ther should be no slack inbetween the to cams the chain should be tight! As for the security lamp being on that will not allow the car to keep running It shuts off the fuel after about 2 seconds of running. If you had a fault in this system and it originally occured during a key on event than the IPC sends a default signal to the ECM to keep the car running. If that fault was present and the battery was disconnected and it was then you will get a no start when you reconnect the battery because the IPC sees the fault when you are trying to crank the car where before it may have occured after the car was running. So that needs to be addressed as well here. I think you have a couple of things going on here and your circling the problem but not quite on top of it yet. Back to the compression I think that engine has somewhere in the area of 140 PSI you may want to dribble a few drops of oil into each cylinder I'm sure the rings are washed down from trying to crank this over if that doen't increase the compression then you have something out of time or bent. That's the best insite I can give you right now and without seeing it it's hard to say. You gave me an excelent history but this is as far as I can really help you.. GOOD Luck! :)
