QuestionQUESTION: My 03 chevy impala is financed, so I am required to have comprehensive and collision coverage on it. I also have a separate car warranty on it. My vehicle inspection was done end of May 2010 by our local GM dealer (who has been working on it quite frequently for the past year). I started noticing problems with acceleration in July 2010 and took it in right away. They said it was a problem with EGR valve and burned spark plugs cables. We did the plugs, dealer did the EGR valve and gasket. We had more problems after they fixed the EGR with it running very rough and we started hearing squealing noises. They said they were not sure what the problem was, so we took it to advance auto and found the same 2 codes they were supposed to take care of was still there. A misfire code and egr system code. I was talking to GM customer service to help me resolve this issue. In the meantime, we took it to another dealer to have back 3 spark plugs re-done (done a year ago), thinking maybe that would help. The car was a little bit better after that but still a little rough. 2 days later, my roommate on his way to work and about an hour away from home, saw smoke from the engine. He pulled over and opened the hood and saw that my car was on fire! He dumped a bucket of water and put the fire out. I had it towed across the street where there happened to be a GM dealership.
They were told to find the cause of the fire. Instead they gave an estimate of $400 saying it only needed insulator, wires and vaccuum hoses. Since I have a $500 deductible, ins said they wouldn't pay for anything other than rental car and only up until yesterday (work was delayed because they were waiting for insulator and not scheduled to be completed until this weekend). Now, 2 weeks later, the dealer is now saying that they found the cause of the fire when they tried to move the vehicle. The result was a clogged catalytic converter which flooded the tube that connects to the engine. The tube got so hot that it started the fire. The ins company is still maintaining they will not pay for anything but car rental. The dealer is now refusing to do any work on my car! The only other thing they are saying is that in their opinion, the misfire code that came up on my car a couple of times before was never properly diagnosed and/or the other place that changed our spark plugs messed up. He won't put anything in writing though. But my car will not run above 5 miles an hour without catching fire again so it's practically inoperable now. Please help. Is this an issue where the ins company is supposed to pay out and is not doing so? Is this something I should take up with one of the dealerships that has done work on my car (if so how do I know which one)? Or is this going to be something that I end up having to pay out of pocket for? Either way I need to have the car towed elsewhere and get another estimate done on it, will my ins company pay for the tow? Thank you.
ANSWER: Hello,
First of all mechanics are not qualified to determine the cause and origin of a vehicle fire and it appears in this case, that they are not even qualified to diagnose and repair your car!
This is the chicken and egg scenario. The rough running from whatever cause the codes could have plugged the converter--To these so-called mechanics I say--Duh!!!
When the car caught on fire for your room mate, the car went past 5 mph and now it won't because of a plugged cat. Even if the cat is replaced, you will still have the codes and the rough running problem until it too fails.
Unfortunately, its hard to find good technicians these days. People like me from the old school actually fixed problems, but we are too old to be in the biz now because our bodies fell apart.
The insurance company if you are turning in a claim is going to require the deductible, its in your policy, but this goes more back on the dealer that did the EGR and plug cables without diagnosing the problem correctly. They carry "shop owners) liability and would be where I would be going. It sounds like everyone is pointing fingers, but that is the place I would be going.
I would go to the service director and if that does no good the owner.
I am not suggesting this, but it worked when the owner did not get his car fixed by the selling dealer. The owner of the car parked in front of the dealer with sticky lemons pasted on it, and in your case maybe put signs in your locked parked car "My car caught on fire because of this dealer's repairs." Remember, I did not tell you to do it, but I have seen it before. You would be surprised how quickly they try to satisfy you.
You have to give the dealer to fix it, but it is obvious that it was misdiagnosed and they don't want to take the blame.
Let me know what happens.
Rob
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Thank you so very much for your thoughtful response. There was only one other thing that I did not mention that may or may not relevant to this whole thing that I would like your opinion on. After they fixed the EGR valve and we started having more problems the minute we took the car out of the dealership (I doubt they even test drove it to be honest because it was... that bad!). We did of course bring it right back and said hey it's running worse now! The service manager test drove came back and without running any tests and gave me some backward explanation about back pressure (now that the EGR was working as intended) flooding the catalytic converter and now that too had to be replaced. He in fact had advised me not to even get that work done there but to take it to Mufflerman where I could have it done for $250 installed. As they did not do any testing to determine that the cat conv was the problem no oxygen sensor code or check engine light on and we were not getting any other symptoms of this (such as loss of power at higher speeds) and considering my annual emissions inspection was done by them at the end of May 2010, we started with the back 3 spark plugs thinking that back in June of last year they had cleaned Cylinder 3 (based on our receipt) to supposedly clear the misfire code P0300 the same one we have now. Do you think that may make a difference? I am very grateful for your advice and I am good at and have done a lot of research online and spoken with different mechanics when things so wrong with my car and like others, I know that the cat converter doesn't just go bad... usually there is an underlying problem (which I agree with you 100% should have been caught by them) and I also do agree that getting another cat conv at this point is useless considering that those same underlying problems are still there and will cause the new one to fail just as the old one did. I have already spoken with the Service Manager and his boss regarding past mis diagnosis problems and they always treat problems with my vehicle as a new problem versus something that they didn't do right causing the problem. I will try speaking with the owner as I have been advised to this before. This seems all so complicated to me that I am glad I had this opportunity to speak with someone that knows what they are talking about and get their input. Looking forward to hearing back from you again. Thank you.
ANSWER: Hello,
Sorry for the late answer, but I have family issues going on and the more difficult answers I needed time for comprehensive answers.
EGR--Exhaust Gas Reticulation valve. It does not or is not supposed to flood the converter. In fact, your converter plugging up is from the poor running engine.
In the computer system, you have open loop and closed loop. Normally, the engine runs in closed loop and the engine runs great and all sensors are functioning.
Open loop is where the computer is not operating correctly, but the engine will run, not well, but it will run.
with a check engine light on or hard codes, something is wrong causing unburned gasoline to go into converter and there by plugging it up.
It is more than obvious with your writings, the people at this dealership might qualify to do an oil change, but have no idea how to fix your car.
If you get a converter now, I am afraid you are going to need another shortly. This is the chicken/egg syndrome.
I think you need to talk to the owner of the dealership and see what they will do for you. If their mechanics are worthless, maybe they should sub contract the problem to a more competent dealer. It is not your problem and you are not going to get paid for someone else fixing the car.
I am sure the owner will not be happy that their employee is telling you to go elsewhere instead of having a GM converter. He looses the money on the parts and labor.
Be persistent.
If you still have problems, go to your local TV station that has investigative reporting or something for consumers.
The owner will not like the bad publicity.
Until lately I have refrained fro name calling, but these technicians sound like hacks.
Let me know what happens.
If my answers assisted you, please rate them.
Thanks and good luck.
Rob
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Sorry to hear about the family problems you are having. I have yet to resolve this issue. I tried contacting the owner and was directed to his secretary and my car ended up being re-routed to the service supervisor. After he deliberated for a day or so, I left a message asking him if he has made a decision as to whether he will tow my car and make all necessary repairs at his expense. He flatly refused. I had the car towed to a small mechanic shop in the city where my car is now (about 51 miles away) as that is the only thing I could think to do. I asked them to give me a full estimate. You mentioned that they will not pay for someone else to fix my car and yet they are refusing to fix it without charging me (what would probably be an arm and a leg). Any additional ideas as to what I should do now? Should I try to contact the owner again after he clearly tried to pawn me off on his service supervisor? It would be $150+ for me to have my car towed to my area. Thanks again in advance for ur great responses.
AnswerHello,
Do not let that shop do any repairs yet!
You have given the dealer the right to cure and they refused.
What state are you in? I might be able to refer you to an attorney.
If not, if you write me at robo14@aol.com I will give you an idea as to which direction to go.
