QuestionThanks a bunch! That was undeniably the most thorough and helpful answer I have ever received about stereo equipment. Or stereo anything.
I actually do have a follow up question though. My roomate noticed that I've been trying to piece together a stereo system and decide on components <for weeks now> and added that I should just drop $150 on a set of multimedia speakers like a Klipsch ProMedia 4.1 setup or his own setup of Logitech Z-560. His deal is that these systems are cheap, setup real easy, and play with excellent sound. <His system is 400Watts RMS for 150$> Ive listened to them, and I wont argue that the system isnt loud. Because it can go deafening. However, I dont have that much experience listening to good Hi-Fi. Just from my own listening opinion, which is based on little knowledge and even less experience, is that I wasn't impressed with the sound quality. It was loud, but it didnt sound clear enough I suppose. It just didnt sound like I was there in the recording studio, or even pseudo there.
My question is, am I going to find better sound quality than this without reaching into a cost bracket way over my head and meager budget? What kinds of sacrifices am I making if I were to go the multimedia speaker set route? And as someone trying to break into the world of Hi-Fi, is this the wrong direction for me? The price is too tempting for me not to ask you first. Thanks!
John
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Followup To
Question -
I'm currently in the process of piecing together my very first home stereo system. I'm starting by buying a receiver. Cost is prohibitive, starving college student that I am, and so I'm looking to buy very cheap equipment (ie: It doesnt have to look good, just sound pretty good, and last a long time).
Anyway, all I know about stereo equipment is what you can read in the public library. Not a whole lot on stereo selection. I've been told that older stereo receivers, mid 70's, have excellent build and sound quality, last a long time, and can be had very cheap (im looking at a Technics SA500 for 65$). I've also been told that 80's equipment should be feared because of shoddy construction, overheating, poor sound quality (im looking at a Kenwood KR-V7050 for 50$). (Both are in good condition)
Is there any reason I should be discouraged from buying either of these receivers? (price, technical support, repair parts, quality, age, brand, ect). Please, give me a little bit of direction for my first stereo buy since most other people just want to get me to buy the most expensive thing I can afford.
If you have any suggestions for a particular product that you recommend, feel free to include that as well. Thanks!
Answer -
Dear John,
I've been doing this since the late '60s. My take on "eras", such as they are, is that the generalizations ('70s = solid; '80s = shoddy) are largely just that: generalizations.
Both Technics and Kenwood are reputable manufacturers. Kenwood has had more ups and downs than most, but its mid-'70s analog tuners are among the best ever made. Technics was supposed to have been Panasonic's "upscale" line, tho' there's never been a whole lot upscale about it. Mostly it's different and a bit more expensive.
I have two quibbles with mass-market (meaning both Technics and Kenwood) receiver made in both the '70s and '80s. First, they tend to be low-powered (35 watts per channel RMS or less), and, second, they tend to have "dirtier" signals than the competition.
With respect to power, you really want as much as you can get, the more the merrier. If your choice boils down to X has 35 wpc rms and Y has 50, go for Y.
"Dirty" hi-fi has more to do with a technical specification called, "total harmonic distortion" or THD. Anything below 0.5% (that's one half of one percent) is inaudible. A lot of mass-market receivers back then had lousy THD specs, but you couldn't generalize among Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony, Technics, Kenwood, and so on. Depended on the model, its component parts, the amplifier design. Audible THD will break up your sound and make musical extremes harsh(highs and lows) when you play the component loudly.
The good news is that by 1980 or so, THD had been designed into oblivion. BTW, THD is about the only thing that would effect "sound quality". Solid state stuff tends to add virtually no coloration to the sound source (unlike tube jobs, where anything goes...). Of course modern designs are a little bit better here and there, but "sound quality" should not be an issue when deciding between these two. If one sounds loads better than the other, get it.
My final quibble with vintage stuff is the speaker connections. Most mass-market product back then used really cheesy screw thingies or equally cheesy spring clips. Yuk. Still...if you're careful and pay attention to the connection, neither connection will give you any specific problem. But check and make sure the spring clips are actually functional. 'Cos if they're not, replacing them can be expensive. The parts are cheap. The labor will kill you.
If you're not buying on eBay (never buy sound equipment without listening to it...), bring your own speakers along to audition the units. Get the one you like better. At these prices, the worst thing that can happen is that you'll take it home and it'll go PFFT!
Yes, parts are always available for mass-market product regardless of the vintage, but it's the labor that'll kill you (again). Around here (greater Washington DC), labor runs $70/hour and up. So if what you buy dies, either learn how to fix it yourself or have a buddy or your girlfriend's nerdy brother help you out.
There's no tech support for stuff this old. Hell, there's barely tech support for stuff that was discontinued last year.
Since you asked, I'd suggest an entry-level system as follows:
Sony STR-DE185 receiver ($150 MSRP--probably less than $100 on sale somewhere, like Best Buy or Circuit City). Best price I've seen on the web is $123.44--but you have to add shipping to that.
PSB Alpha loudpspeakers ($200 pair); eventually you'll need a subwoofer or want to trade up, but that's okay. Dealers at www.psbspeakers.com. A great used speaker is the Celestion 3; discontinued years ago and utterly transparent.
Any el cheapo DVD player (there are outrageous deals at places like Wal-Mart), usually $50 or less. Dedicated CD players are dying out. DVD players, even the really cheap ones, have better electronics. Besides, you can run a video cable to your TV and watch movies when you're not listening to music! Of course since you have only 2-channel stereo, you'll only get 2-channel movies, but you can wait for surround sound for when you're out of school and getting rich.
Hope this helps. Good luck. Always write back if you have other questions, or I've been as clear as mud. Been known to happen. And thanks for choosing allexperts.com!
Kindest regards,
Kevin
AnswerDear John,
First of all, let me apologize for the reply delay. I had your answer ready to go day before yesterday, but the allexperts.com server wouldn't let me send it. I don't know what went wrong. I've notified them. Thanks for your patience.
Multimedia/computer speakers made by computer companies like Logitech are designed for mid-fi sound, basically for gaming and other computer applications that require sound. They don't pretend to be hi-fi. However, companies like Cambridge SoundWorks (www.hifi.com), Boston Acoustics, Altec Lansing, and Klipsch--all bona fide speaker companies--have put some interesting product out there that offer less compromises for hi-fi sound. But you're right: the sound quality is not what you'll get out of speakers made for listening instead of computers.
Yes, you can get a "multimedia" speaker set for $150, but you'll get loads better sound quality with PSB Alphas for only $50 more. My general rule for speaker decisions is: let your ears be the judge. If what you heard from the multimedia speakers had less fidelity than what you expected, then listen to the alternative (PSB or Celestion), and decide for yourself.
In my home office I've got a really nice Altec Lansing satellite/subwoofer multimedia speakers connected to my PC, and the sound, especially streaming audio from Radio Paradise (if you don't know about them, check it out: www.radioparadise.com), is very, very good. But it's not much better than the FM radio I listened to 30 years ago. I've also got a pair of PSB Image 2B speakers connected to a Harman/Kardon Festival 60 system: now that's hi-fi. Simply blows the Altec Lansings away. (BTW, the Image 2Bs are $450/pair, but from the same family and maker as the Alphas.)
Finally, I'm prejudiced when it comes to sound: can't stand compromised or limited sound, which is what I hear through multimedia/computer speakers. So I always tend toward "real" speakers. Still, you and your trusty ears are going to have to make this decision.
Kindest regards,
Kevin
