QuestionQUESTION: Hi Roland!! Glad you're back!!! I have a NEW problem....Lately, after fuel-up, the vehicle doesn't want to start - it acts like it's flooded and I have to put the pedal to the floor while cranking in order for it to start. This only occurred immediately after fuel-up...then, the rest of the time was fine. HOWEVER, lately, since outside temperatures have been in the 90's - now it does it much more often. Not EVERY time I go to start the vehicle, but usually after it sat for a time. Hour or more [in this heat].
The check engine light comes on and the computer indicates a small evap leak. I just [about 3 months ago] replaced the gas cap [for same reason] with a factory cap. Now, the light is coming on again. The light doesn't come on EVERY time we clear it, but then it does periodically come back on and then we clear it again. The light has NEVER come on when we've had the problems with starting...ONLY at odd times when you don't even think anything is wrong.
I put the old gas cap back on to 'see' if it acted the same as with the 'new' cap. At first, I thought things were better. The vehicle seemed to start without any problems. Well, the issue [in the heat] still occurs, but not quite as often. However, I haven't had a change to do a fuel-up yet to see if the problems starting is still an issue or not. It MOST likely will be.
So - hope you can help.
Thanks a bunch!!!
Tania
ANSWER: Hi Tania,
Are you the same Tania whom I answered in June? If not, here is a similar question from another Tania on the same problem (strange co-incidence?:
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Expert: Roland Finston - 6/7/2010
Question
QUESTION: Hello. I have a 2004 Chrysler Pacifica (manuf. May 2003). The vehicle runs great....EXCEPT....every time I fill up with fuel - immediately following the vehicle acts up. IF I fill up and go on my way - as I'm driving down the road the vehicle 'hiccups' or 'hesitates' on/off for about 10-20 miles of travel time and then it's fine. On the occasion that I start and must sit idle - it stalls and continues to do so unless I sit idle and feather the gas [this lasts until after go on my way and clears up after 10-20 miles of travelling]. After that - the rest of the tank the vehicle runs fine - NO issues. This occurs no matter I fill the tank and stop at shut-off - or fill to round to next dollar - or fill to max. I will tell you that EVERY time I put gas in tank [fill or only couple dollars worth] and remove the nozzle - gas in filler tube gurgles and spits and sputters a while. I have put the gas cap on immediately and other times waited until I heard NOTHING at all. All these times the vehicle was OFF and key off. The vehicles STILL acts up immediately after filling. ONE time we filled the vehicle and left it running to see if made a difference. NOPE. It stalled during fill-up. It did start back up, but still acted up for the first 20 miles. Two times the check engine light came on [evap leak code]. We have since replaced the gas cap with a FACTORY cap and the light has not come back on - HOWEVER, the problem I'm writing about continues unchanged. We have sought the advice of 2 dealerships who, since there are no codes, cannot figure out the problem. We have exhausted all possible scenarios and desperately need help.
NOTE: I want to mention that ONE time we had only 1/4 tank of gas and ONLY added $10 worth to get us by. That ONE time, the vehicle did NOT act up. ALL other times we've gotten gas - it's been fill-ups.
Thanks
ANSWER: Hi Tania,
I found the following information about this same problem in the Chrysler minivans thanks to another Chrysler owner who vistited this site late last year:
"Shops are reporting a problem with the gas tank on Dodge Caravan, Grand Caravan, Plymouth Voyager, and Town and Country vans. Shortly after refueling, drivers experience engine stalling. The stalling may repeat several times.
The problem is the vapor/liquid separator valve located at the top of the fuel tank. The valve is designed to prevent liquid fuel from entering the charcoal canister/emissions system. When the valve fails, liquid gas can enter the line and fill the charcoal canister.
After refueling the PCM on the vehicle detects a change in fuel level. Then, when the engine meets certain temperature and driving criteria, the PCM issues a purge command to the charcoal canister to remove the stored gas vapors. It’s at that point that all the liquid gas in the line gets sucked into the charcoal canister. The PCM expects to see gas vapors entering the intake manifold and it is prepared to adjust air/fuel mixtures to compensate. However, it is not prepared to see liquid gas coming into the intake. That’s what causes the engine to stall.
Unfortunately, the ONLY fix is to replace the entire gas tank. Chrysler does NOT sell the vapor/liquid valve as a separate unit. Once the tank is replaced and the charcoal canister purged, the problem goes away"
I would wonder whether the vapor/liquid separator valve is not replaceable separately, thus requiring replacing the entire tank! This may not be true for the Pacifica, which I did verify has such a valve. But I suspect that this valve is the cause of your problem. Please let me know what happens as you seek to replace that valve.
Good luck on this issue.
Roland
PS Please 'rate' my answer. Where you see the question about 'volunteer of the month' please consider giving me a "yes" response as I need every nomination I can garner to win this recognition. Thank you.
PPS: Thank you the rating/nomination/very kind evaluation.
I came upon one 'recall' possibility that the dealer service department should be able to show you the details about, which is on the subject of stalling and involves reprogramming the powertrain control module (PCM):
Technical Service Bulletin Titles for 2004 Chrysler Pacifica V6-3.5L VIN 4
MARCH 2004 Recall - PCM Reprogramming for Engine Stalling
I am uncertain this stalling happens in association with fuel tank refill, but it is certainly worth determining whether it does. In any case, that recall modification can be checked in the Chrysler corporate record to verify whether your specific vehicle was modified or not, and if not it should be done now for free.
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QUESTION: Not a question, but UPDATE: We replaced the fuel tank and the problem IS resolved!!! Thank goodness!!! It was QUITE annoying of running issues immediately after EVERY fill-up!! Thank you so VERY much for your accurate assessment and how to resolve the issue. Too bad had to waste an ENTIRE gas tank for one little problem, but at least it's fixed. I got VERY lucky and found a used gas tank from a vehicle with ONLY 5,000 miles on it! At any rate. PROBLEM RESOLVED. Thanks again for awesome advice!!
ANSWER: Hi Tania,
Thanks for the update and your sharing this history will no doubt help other owners. I will certainly pass along the experience to other owners with the same problem.
On another subject, did you check with the dealer about that 2004 recall I listed in my last answer? It too had to do with stalling and a fix via reprogamming the engine computer.
Roland
PS Thank for the rating, nomination, and your very kind remarks!
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QUESTION: Hi Roland. I have another question pertaining to this whole situation of ours... The vehicle runs better and everything now....however, our gas gauge is no longer registering properly. And, now, the check engine light sometimes comes on and the code indcates a problem with reading the gas or other. Anyway, is there a way to calibrate the fuel pump or whatever that sends the fuel status to the gauge? We tried disconnecting the battery to try to 'reset' the gauge, but that didn't work. The gauge reads full until the first 1/2 of the tank is empty and ONLY once the second 1/2 starts getting used will it start to change. To fix this - we put all items that came with the replacement tank (fuel pump and sending unit) in the tank (before, my husband used the fuel pump that was originally in MY vehicle's tank). Now, the gauge isn't working much at all. Anyway, we're sure it has to be an issue of 'resetting' the sensor for the gauge or 're-calibrating' it. At any rate, we are STUCK because the gauge isn't working properly now that we've done the changing of the tanks.
Please help,
Tania
Answer
Hi Tania,
I would start with a cluster self-calibration which you can do by pressing and holding the odometer reset button for 10 seconds or more, then release it. Do this while the ignition is "off". The gauges will cycle through a set of positions of the needles. See how the fuel gauge needle responds to this test, and also see if this corrects the problem. If not, then we have to move to the fuel tank and check whether the fuel gauge 'float' is hung up and prevented from rising to the top of the fuel level due to some mechanical constraint.
Roland"
Please let me know if you are the same Tania, and tell me about the issue with the vapor valve which is the likely problem. You can check for whether Chrysler has done a recall on you car by going to www.Chrysler.com
Roland
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QUESTION: Hi Roland. Yes, It's me - same Tania. I'm hoping it's NOT the same issue as my 'hesitation' going down the road or NOT starting AT all stuff was all gone. The vehicle has run so much better since we changed out gas tanks - and, the tank I received ONLY had 5,0000 miles on it!! I cannot POSSIBLY believe that this tank's charcoal filter valve has issues as well. This is why I am writing. Granted - the vehicle now acts like it's 'flooded' when I FIRST go to start it immediately following fill-up --- however, it also does this in extreme heat.
Is there any way something else could be going on? Have 2 BAD gas caps? A line somewhere? EGR valve or the like? I just find it HARD to believe a 5,000 mile tank is defective, too.
Sure hope it's something OTHER than another tank issue. Many thanks for all your patience %26 help,
Tania
AnswerHi Tania,
It could be the used fuel tank has the same problem as did your original tank if they were manufactured in the same time frame. I don't know the history of the vapor valve problem but maybe if you check the recall at the Chrysler website you will find it there. If so, it could be a free replacement. Do you know the history of the used tank? Maybe it was available because of the same problem?
Did you ever get the pcm reprogrmmed as I mentioned in our earlier exchanges? That is definitely a recall and should be done, for free, if not done already. You simply list the VIN of the vehicle to see the recall situation/status of your vehicle.
I doubt it is the egr because that would happen most of the time, not just related to the fill-up. Have you tried for fault codes? Get that free at an Autozone parts store.
Let me know what you learn, please.
Roland
PS Thanks for the very generous evaluation!
Tania replied on 7/16:
Got 'er fixed. Turned out to be the Purge Solenoid. Long story, just know -- a LOT of research and phone calls. As soon as we replaced the solenoid, we put gas in the vehicle and it started right up WITHOUT even touching the gas pedal!!! What a relief to finally get this pain fixed!!
