QuestionQUESTION: Hi Roland.
I have a 2000 Plymouth Grand Voyager with 94000 miles, 3.2L, that does not start with every key turn. This just started this week. When I go to start it, I can here a spark sound and the lights come on and then it dies. When this happens it takes 2 to 5 tries before it starts. Once it is started, the van runs fine. It does not do this everytime. This morning on the way to the store, it started the first time but on the way back, I had to restart 5 times.
ANSWER: Hi Stacey,
If you could identify which 'lights come on' (and I assume they don't come on when it starts correctly?) and also is the spark sound associated with any particular action that you do at that same moment with the ignition key (and whether the spark sounds to be in the cabin with you or coming from the engine compartment) I would be better able to contemplate why this is happening. When you say "then it dies" is it correct that the engine 'catches' and seems to run, but only for a couple of seconds, or does it not catch at all?
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Roland
Roland, Thanks for the quick reply. The spark sound is coming from the engine and the engine does not catch. No other lights come on other than the normal ones when starting it. Thank you. Stacey
Hi Stacey,
The spark sound is likely associated with one of the 6 separate spark coils that are each mounted directly to the spark plug. With that system there are not high voltage wires between a separate coil pack and the individual spark plugs.
I would approach this problem two ways:
The engine control computer has a self-diagnostic capability in which if it notices a problem it stores a 4-digit code number in its memory. A code reader is plugged into a socket under the dash by the steering column to readout the memory for the code numbers. That can be performed often for free at an Autozone parts store or for around $40 at an independent garage. Ask for the code numbers, what they mean, what they recommend and how much is the cost? Then write back and we can compare that with the diagnostic manual for that code and decide whether to go with what you were told or not.
Because there is a spark sound it is possible that you may be able to see the flash of light associated with that sound. It is more likely to be visible at night in low-light conditions. So the next time this happens at night if you have a flashlight on-board and a helper then open the hood and have the helper try to start it again while you watch for the spark. Then turn on the flash light to see which component is located at the site of the flash. There are a couple of electronic devices called noise-suppression capacitors, one on each of the two banks of cylinders, that are used to smooth out the normal sparking of the plugs that produce radio noise. If one of those capacitors was shorting to ground that would cause the loss of spark to three of the six cylinders and it might also produce a visible flash of light. These can 'self-heal' enough to allow the engine to start and run, but then break-down again after sitting for a while. So those, or one of the spark coils mounted on each plug, may similarly be breaking-down.
Let me know what you learn from either of these approaches, or both.
Roland
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Hi Roland,
I went to AutoZone and they could not get the memory code because of no check engine light. The mechanic that helped me said it sounded to her to be the starter. She checked the battery and it was "very good". So, I guess it's not the Alternator? I tried starting the car at low light last night and of course, it started just fine. Every place I call wants me to pay at least $100.00 to find the problem. One guy told me that because of the initial "spark sound", it's not the starter. I am hoping you can help me go into a place a little better informed. Everyone seems to have a different opinion.
Thank you
Stacey
AnswerHi Stacey,
No, it doesn't sound like the starter, IF the starter motor continues to crank the engine after the sound of the spark. On the other hand if the starter motor quits at exactly the same time as you hear the spark, even though you still have the key in the starter position, then I would suspect the wire from the battery to the starter motor is loose/corroded/shorting out OR the starter motor itself is the problem. So tell me which way the starter is behaving. It is reasonable that if the computer has recognized no problems there would be no codes (I assume that your check engine light is functioning (it should light when you turn the key to the run position before you try the starter). I would still try to see the spark. The problem with going to a shop is that if they can't reproduce the problem and there is no code then there is no way of diagnosing it. That's why I encourage you to be your own diagnostician.
Roland
The engine light does work. The car dies exactly when the spark sound happens. I will check tonight for the spark and where it is coming from. Thank you.
Hi Stacey,
If the spark is simultaneous with the starter motor ceasing to crank, then I suspect that the fat red wire from the battery +post
clamp that goes to the starter motor has an abrasion in its red insulation which allows the exposed metal wire to touch a piece of the engine or body when the starter is causing a slight vibration while it cranks.
That wire is the only one that can deliver so much current as to make an arcing sound without blowing a fuse (there is no fuse in that ciruit). So if you can't visualize the location I would begin at the +clamp and trace that wire all along the path to the starter motor to see if there is a spot where it comes in contact with some metal part of the engine or body and where there is a sign of a burn through of the insulation. It might be wise to disconnect the other clamp, from the -post of the battery, while you do that so that you aren't dealing with a "hot" wire which if you accidentally get next to a place where it arcs, should it otherwise arc, could give you a burn.
That is my theory/guess.
Roland
