QuestionQUESTION: I sent you a question regarding a stalled 1988 reliant, but provided the wrong email address of pls3523@comcast.com s/b pls3523@comcast.net
ANSWER: Hi Paula,
The fuel pump should run for about 1 second when you turn the key to the 'run' position. If not, then it isn't getting voltage from the ASD relay which is the frontmost one on the left inner fender. See if you have 12V on the red wire at that relay. If not, then you have a blown fusible link at the rear of the battery (white in color), That red wire is connected directly to the battery so it should be "hot" all the time. If it is, then the engine controller should energize the relay for 1 second. If not, then the relay could be bad, or the engine controller isn't turning it on. If it does turn it on (check dark green/black wire at the relay) then the fuel pump should sound for a second and similarly the + post of the spark coil should have 12v for 1 second.
If you have that 1 second response, but not 12v at those points when cranking, then the hall-effect sensor in the distributor is bad, so replace that.
Check for codes with the ignition key:"on-off-on-off-on and leave on", doing that in 5 seconds or less elapsed time. Then watch the check engine light, which remains "on", to begin to flash, pause, flash, etc. Count the number of flashes before each pause. Then repeat for accuracy. Then group the numbers in pairs in the order of appearance to form the two digit fault codes. 55 is always the last code as it means "end of readout". 11 means the hall sensor is bad, etc. Let me know other codes.
There is a 6 pin socket behind the battery for OBD-I type of reader, but there may not be easy access to that. So try the ignition key approach. The spark can best be assessed the old fashion way with the screwdriver inserted in a spark plug cap and then held by the insulated handle with the shaft 1/4" from the block.
Let me know how this works out.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Thanks for the info. Can't seem to find the ASD. Here are the codes it's throwing, 11-12-16-55. All understandable, but in checking the codes there was a poster that said, regarding code 11:
Note #8
Can cause the engine to stop working entirely with no limp-home mode. Note: An anonymous poster wrote, “Code 11 will only be set upon clearing the codes, most commonly by disconnecting the battery. It says in the factory diagnostic manuals that code 11 means no ignition reference signal has been seen since battery disconnect. As soon as the vehicle's engine is cranked, and a reference signal is seen, code 11 will go away immediately on it's own. It also won't be set upon failure of a part such as a hall-effect pick-up plate, or loss of the timing belt. If no reference signal is seen during cranking after a battery disconnect, code 11 will remain. This is a helpful indicator in a no-start condition.” (Chrysler did sometimes change codes depending on the year, so it may be that some of these apply to differentyears.)
What's your thought on this?
ANSWER: Hi Paula
The ASD is actually the rearmost one on the left inner fender. Sorry to have misled you...I was thinking about '89-on locations.
On the note #8: It is confused/confusing. The 12 code and the 11 codes seem to be intermixed. I would trust the 11 code and buy a new hall-effect cam/crank ignition sensor for the distributor. It is easy to install, just remove the cap and rotor. Of course, do the checks I suggested just to verify that 12V is available to run the pump and the coil once you get sensor installed.
Speaking of the 12V, the 16 code (battery sense not detected while engine running) suggests that you may indeed not have the 12V on the red wire to the ASD relay because of a blown white fusible link, because that link supplies not only the ASD but also is the source of the battery 'sense' input to the engine controller, as I read it. So do check that as well. See if you have 12V on pin 41 of the 60-way plug at the controller. If you do, then it could be a false code. Disconnect the battery for a minute or so, which erases all the codes, then crank it again and re-check for new codes. The 12 will be back, as that is the code for 'battery disconnected recently'.
Roland
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Hi Roland,
First, thanks again for your help. Okay, this is where I'm at. I have replaced the ASD relay, the Hall Effect sensor, and the spark coil. 12V seemed to be at all the points you had referenced. Nothing doing. Until I found the white fusible link that was in fact blown. In order to check that the pump is functioning I rigged the fusible link and at last, there was fuel. Bad news is, there is still no spark. The only code is 12 at this point. Any ideas on where to go next?
AnswerHi Paula,
Monitor the voltage on the + post of the coil while you crank it for 5 seconds? Then tell me how the 12V at the coil appears (not at all, 1-2 seconds, or 5 seconds). It could be controller or spark coil.
I am thinking that since the fusible link blew, that either the spark coil primary winding is shorted directly to ground, or possibly the oxygen sensor heater or the injector similarly, as all three and the fuel pump are all powered out of the ASD relay which itself is powered by the fusible. The engine controller also gets some power from the white fusible but I don't believe compared to the other possibilities that it is the cause of the blow out. You could test the spark coil "by hand" as it were by means of .33 uF capacitor from its - post to ground and jumping 12v to the coil + post, (doing this test with the regular wires to the coil disconnected of course), and then monentarily ground the - post while a helper checks for spark using the high voltage wire that normally is connected to the center of the distributor cap held 1/4" from a ground.
But let us see. You can respond via the "thank and rate" tab in the comments section and I will send you a follow-up answer.
Roland
Hi again, I'm told that the relay I replaced was not the ASD, it was for the fuel pump. The local auto parts stores are unable to find the ASD relay in their systems, nor can I find it on line Is there another name this would be called or might you be able to provide a part #. The relay that I'm pretty sure is the ASD is not making an audible "clicking" sound. Thanks again, Paula
Hi Paula,
There is no unique fuel pump relay in this car. The ASD relay does power the pump but also the fuel injector, oxygen sensor, and spark coil. There are four relays in that left side corner, from front to rear and around the corner: ac clutch/ASD/fan/starter. So if that one is not clicking, then the engine controller is not activating for that 1 second when you turn the switch to "run" as I earlier described for one of the following reasons: The dark blue wire is not getting 12V from the ignition switch in the run position, the dark blue/yellow is not being grounded for 1 second by the engine controller (those two wires are on either end of the relay activation coil) or the relay is no good. So if you replaced the "fuel pump relay" what you did by another name already is replaced the ASD. So check out those two wires to see what happens when you turn the key to 'run'. The other two wires on that relay I described earlier as to what they do: the red should be hot all the time, and the dark green/black should receive 12v from the red wire through the closed points for that 1 second, and of course when you start cranking the relay should close again and you should be able to measure that fact, even though you may not hear the click above the noise from the starter.
Roland
