QuestionQUESTION: Hey Roland
Thanks for the fast response! By the way the engine in this car is 6 cyl. 3.5
So you know, you where very helpful back in September, when he was having an issue with the car not starting, and I was trying to pin point what was causing the problem, when I realized that moving his steering wheel, up and down, was allowing the car to get juice to the battery, so the dash lights where coming on. Ahhh the ignition switch, and we replaced, and it ran good.. till the battery died.
When they tested the battery at Advance, the guy told us the charge on the battery was good, the machine didn't need to charge the battery it was fully charged. I do not know if the machine tests the current, or what the voltage drops to when the battery is asked to work.
The battery is one of Interstates, cheapies, $20.00, and we installed ourselves just last month. Of course with these reused batteries, no warranty is given. Which lead me to think.. cheap battery.. start there.
After the issue with the ignition switch, I told him to watch his gauges, and watch what the car was doing when he turned it over, apparently he wasn't doing that.
He did charge the battery with a charger and even tried jumping it with a few different cars, and different cables.
What has me concerned is the car just died, while he was driving it, (thankfully after he made the turn onto his street)so he was able to coast the car to the front of his house. Even if the battery was dead, wouldn't alternator still run car? If it was the alternator wouldn't the battery still run car? And the started wouldn't just cause the car to die. This leads me back to thinking, a problem in the steering column? Possibly the power distribution center? Fusible link? (Where are the fusible links at?)
I do have a tester I will be able to use tomorrow in the day, so I can see what I am doing, so I plan on checking the fuses, including the ones in the power distribution center.
Also too, he did have to take the car to one of the local dealers for open recalls, one which has to do with some linkage in the prnd12, and the car rolling forward. If this was not repaired correctly, and it slips or will not set itself into position, the car could die or will not start?
Thanks again for your help and time !
ANSWER: Hi Karen,
If the battery is good, and the starter motor will crank the engine at a good rate but it won't catch and run then you need to do fault code readout with the ignition key:"on-off-on-off-on and leave on" doing that in 5 seconds or less of elapsed time. Then count the number of flashes before each pause of the "check engine" light. Then repeat the counts to be sure of an accurate count. The last two counts will always be 5's. Then write back and tell me the count numbers in the order they read out.
If the engine won't crank over and yet you hear the solenoid click on the starter motor, then assuming the battery is good, the starter motor is in need of help. You can try tapping on the side of the starter motor with a hammer while a helper tries the key to see if that might jar the brushes to connect to the armature of the motor and begin the cranking. Otherwise, you need to get it rebuilt in all likelihood.
So those are the two possibilities for no start diagnosis, assuming the battery is charged and you can't get it to either start and run, or crank. You said you could hear the starter solenoid click but the motor was not cranking over the engine, correct?
Write me back and we'll go from there.
Roland
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QUESTION: Hey Roland
Yes thats correct, starter solenoid will click, the motor will not turn over, and after solenoid clicks, all the lights dim, to where it seems that there is no power to the car.
I have tried to get the car to do a fault code read out, but when you turn the key to the on position, it loses the lights, with this happening.. I think the car is losing power, which leads me to think, there is not enough power to have run thru the fault codes and if it is you cannot read them... no lights on the dash.
I had a friend come over and look at the car last night, he had a tester, along with a huge commercial tow truck, put the cables to battery to jump, and she's tried to crank, but nothing, but no catch. He tested started - its getting power, he told my son, it is either a cam sensor, or crank shaft sensor...then he mentioned it is a sensor that is down under near transmission. You know I have the manual, and I looked up the cam and crank sensors, they are not down there, unless there are other ones down there the manual doesn't mention. Then while searching on line, I came across this site - Autozone, wow.. they have so much info on there.. wiring diagrams, specifications, code read outs, but really no info on what I was looking for. Are there sensors under the car? From what I was understanding, it somewhat sounds like the brushes in starter are the issue. But would that have the car die while driving it?
ANSWER: Karen,
I am still confused about the battery power situation. You can't get it to crank but a tow truck would make it crank. So your battery has to be discharged/shot. I can't believe the battery is so discharged as to not read codes but maybe that is the case. By "on" I mean the "run" position not the starter position. If you can't get the check engine light to even work then either the battery is dead or there is something wrong with the ignition switch. You need to sort that out and get it read codes before worrying about which sensor. The sensors are on the upper side of the engine, not underneath it, and that can be dealt with once you get a code. I suspect a sensor but you need to have battery power to do anything.
Roland
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QUESTION: Hey Roland
Cleaned the battery terminals, and connectors, made sure ground was okay, used some of that grease for good connection, said a little prayer and what do you know… I have lights, I can turn the key and the dash lights stay on tried to turn over, and she tries to go.. the engine is to go.. but no luck, no problem check the codes, 12 (battery disconnect) and 55… dah.. the battery was disconnected I need the engine to run first before I can get them. As I sit there thinking… I notice the oil light stays on.. . ran to Advance Auto, for oil the dude that helped with the battery the other night, asked how things where going with the car, I told him.. he said “oh Chryslers are set up, that if the oil gets below 2 quarts low, the engine will not start” I looked at him like he had 12 heads, he said “the engine and car will shut down so you do not seize the engine, and sometimes it will go into a lock mode” is this true?
RECAP – have power now – (probably need new battery cables) the ones there now are pretty beat up looking. Key turns now, and lights and everything will stay on, started tries to get engine going, but no luck. Engine low 2.5 quarts of oil. My 93 5.0 mustang acted the same way, when pvc went… not to sure where to go from here…
AnswerHi Karen,
That is progress. I would still keep the battery on the charger until you can get it started.
Do you hear the fuel pump run for about 1 second when you turn the key from "off" to "run"? You should. If not then either the ASD relay is not working, a fuse is blown or the fuel pump has gone bad. So listen for that sound coming from the fuel tank and let me know.
Do you have spark when you are cranking the starter? Put a Phillips head screw driver with a plastic handle and a metal shaft of sufficient length to reach the inside end of the cap of one of the spark plug caps, then hold the screwdriver by the plastic handle and position the assembly so that the shaft is 1/4" away from the cylinder head. Then have your son crank the starter motor and you observe for a spark to jump across the gap between the shaft and the block. Yes or NO?
If you have fuel pump and spark then you should have ignition. If you only don't have spark then check to see if the timing belt has broken (in fact do that first before anything else. On the left bank of cylinder, at the front of the engine, there is a round cast metal cover which shrouds the cam shaft sprocket/timing belt area. Remove the screws on the cover and peak inside to make sure that when the engine is cranked that the sprocket moves. If not, then that would of course cause the engine to not start or run.
Those are the logical next things to do. And keep checking for codes.
Roland
