QuestionQUESTION: Hi. My Sebring was only being driven once a week, at the most, by my wife, until it wold not start at all. A very nie Vietnamese mechanic in Boston repaired it last week, telling me something had chewed through a wire. On the way home today I stopped at a store. When I came out I turned the key. It just started to turn over when I turned it off to unlock the center console to get my glasses. After that it would not start at all, and kept blowing the 20 Amp starer fuse under the hood. Did this abrupt action possibly blow the starter relay (I assume there is one) and short it out?!
ANSWER: Hi John,
If you are speaking of fuse #8, then I it is possible that the starter relay actuation coil that is blown. You could remove the relay to test that theory and see of a new fuse blows or not. Actually, though, there are a great many components that are powered from that fuse including: the starter motor solenoid, which could be the culprit, and the fuel pump relay, and 4 sections of the ignition switch which power many other items in the run, start, and off positions of the switch. I think that you could at least try pulling out the starter relay and the fuel pump relay to see if doing either of those removals circumvents the blowing of that #8 fuse. If so, then focus on the starter motor/solenoid or fuel pump as indicated. Otherwise, the items powered thru the ignition switch's othere sections will need to be considered. The starter relay is in the group of 4 at one end of the box under the hood, in the 2nd rank (the ones on the end of the box, the 1st rank, are for the radiator fan motor speeds). The starter relay is on the left side of the box (driver's side). The fuel pump relay is the third one in from the front of the box.
I would check with the mechanic as to what wire had been chewed through as it may still be shorted.
Let me know what you find from these tests. If you can acquire a digital voltmeter I may be able to walk you through the diagnosis of what is blowing that fuse.
Roland
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QUESTION: Hi, I replaced the starter relay, but still blew a fuse (when the ignition key is turned all the way to "Start"). Without the relay in, the fuse does not blow. The fuse still blows with the fuel pump relay out. I do have a voltmeter, as I happen to be an electronics technician. I called the guy who fixed the car last week. He also suggested another short in the starter motor wire. What is the next logical step? Thanks!
ANSWER: Hi John,
If removing the starter relay causes the fuse to not blow, then either the brown wire from pin #79 (the outboard most pin of the starter relay socket) that goes to the solenoid on the starter motor is shorted to ground, or the starter solenoid itself (where the brown wire attaches) is shorted to ground. There is a light gray 10-pin disconnect just behind the powertrain module under the hood which carries that wire on its pin #5. You could check it there by opening the disconnect and see if either side of the connection is grounded. Then you could go to the starter itself, disconnect the brown wire there and see if the short disappears, and if it does then presumably the solenoid is shorted to ground, which you could verify by measuring the pin at the solenoid to which the brown wire was connected. Somewhere along the path from 79 to and through the starter solenoid you have a short to ground.
I hope this will help you resolve the issue.
Roland
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QUESTION: Thanks, Roland. Excuse the dumb questions I am about to ask. I think I found the connector under another similar connector, under the air cleaner tube. Am I in the correct place? If so, how does one remove the connector?! Also, where is the starter? Do I need to jack the car up (and put it on a jack stand) to get at it from underneath? I'm only 5'8" 150 lbs and can probably get underneath without too much trouble.
ANSWER: Hi John,
The connector is light gray, and I believe it should separate, but you can just skip that issue*. See if pin 79 of the relay socket is shorted to ground (the pin toward the outside edge of the power box) and if it is, then go to the starter motor and disconnect the brown wire from the starter solenoid).
The starter motor is on the front (toward the bumper) underside the engine, just to left of the exhaust crossover pipe, and the fat red + wire from the battery and the brown wire from the relay should be right there. Disconnect the battery - post before dealing with those wires because the red fat wire is otherwise "hot".
Measure the resistance to ground from the disconnected brown wire (should be infinite) and from the solenoid post to which it was attached to ground (should be finite non-zero ohms). One or the other of those reading will be zero ohm, virtually, which is why the fuse is blowing. I don't know about the ground clearance but you might want to raise the left front corner of the body for some access room. The starter is bolted to the transmission housing at the rear of the motor and you simply unbolt it (3 bolts for removal, also remove oil filter for clearance).
Roland
* If the wire itself is shorted to ground, and you could separate the light gray connector, then you could tell if the short was between the connector and pin 79 or the connector and the solenoid. That is the only reason for dealing with the connector at all.
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QUESTION: Hi. With the starter relay removed, pin 79 on the housing is shorted to ground. I jacked the car up on the left side, with an iron dumbbell (in addition to me) as added support. It looks as if the brown wire and the fat red wire are together going to the solenoid. It is next to the oil filter. How do I remove the cable? It looks as if I need a socket, as there appears to be a sleeve around it. Now that my wife is home, I need to find a flashlight to get a better look. Thanks.
AnswerHi John,
If you haven't already, remove the - battery wire at the left side strut tower. It looks to me like the fat red wire is bolted to the solenoid and the brown wire is a push-on connector.
Once you remove the brown wire see what the resistance to ground of the wire alone is, just to verify that it isn't grounded. Then when you read the resistance of the point where the brown wire was attached it is going to be very low (like maybe 1 ohm, but not 0) resistance to ground (it is the resistance of the solenoid's primary coil of wire) if the solenoid is not shorted to ground, or 0 if it is shorted to ground. So "zero" your meter accurately. This will be a tricky reading done on the most sensitive scale. In any case, if you establish that the brown wire isn't grounded itself, then I think the only reason why the fuse #8 is blowing has to be the starter solenoid is bad as you will have shown that the fuse blows with a new starter relay in place, and that the brown wire is not the cause of the short, which leaves only the solenoid itself as the cause.
You will have to check with the dealer/parts store/starter motor rebuild shop to see if a solenoid is sold separately from a complete rebuilt starter or not. I like to get my factory original motor rebuilt at a stater/generator shop if possible rather than buy someone elses rebuilt motor at a parts store, if that is what you need to replace.
I am going to have to drop off the Allexpert service at this point of the day so except for one question at 7 pm CDT that is all I can answer for today.
Roland
