QuestionRoland-Had car towed to a station, before towing the guy pounded the heck out of the gas tank with an ugly stick trying to get the fuel pump to kick in. At the garage the guy had the car for four days and said that it started each time, stopped a few, but then would start again. He could not get a diagnosis, as according to him, it would not malfunction. When I went to pick it up in the morning, it would not start in his garage. He pushed it out saying he was done with it. I later went over to talk to a different mechanic to prepare to have it towed to his shop. I went to the car, would not start. Added some starter fluid, ran, but stopped. Later, when I went over to meet the wrecker, I got in, yep, started. Drove the car to the mechanic, and then home, as he said try it for a bit. Next morning, would not start, around 46degrees. Later in mid-day, started fine, so I drove it to the mechanic and asked him to check. He has had it three days and it has started in his shop, which he said has been cold. I am picking it up this AM. My girl is at the point where she wants to take it to the dealership, a very expensive proposition. Neither of these two mechanics have charged us. But the car still is quirky. Seems to be resisting the cold start, and ok when warmth of day hits. I feel it is some sensor with a cracked wire that is affected by moisture, and when it warms up, the circuit is fine and all things work. I don't want to replace the fuel pump, when it might only be the fuel sensor unit. I am leaning to having this last garage do the replacement of any parts, as he is more reasonable. Any last minute thoughts you have about this would be appreciated before we head to the bank for a loan to go to the dealership service if I can't convince her to stay with the local guy? Thanks-Terry
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The text above is a follow-up to ...
-----Question-----
Rolashd...I know you only go up to '99, but I have a 2000 Sebring Convert.,
which started, ran for a couple minutes, then died. Turns over, will start and run
with starting fluid spraying in air vent, but then dies soon after. Friend said fuel
pump in gas tank could be problem...not sending fuel to engine...said thump on
gas tank before trying to start. What say you? Thanks in advance for any light
you can shed on this!
-----Answer-----
Hi Terry,
If you listen carefully when you first turn the key to the "run" position you will hear a hum from the fuel tank (crouch down infront of the rear tire to listen, while a helper operates the key; it will only hum for a second before being cut off for reasons of safety. But when you start cranking it will run again but it is harder to hear). Then if the engine will start and run on its own, but then it dies, immediately try the key to "run" position and see if the pump will still run for 1 second. If it does then I doubt it is the fuel pump but it still could be the fuel pressure is insufficient even though the pump is running, but that could only be told by measuring the pressure. The flow rate is low at idle so I doubt the pressure is the issue but it could be the mixture is wrong. But if it will hum for a second after that experience of dying out, I would rather first focus on the possibility that your spark is dying out because of the failure of one of the ignition system sensors. I would have a spare spark plug available and when it dies, carefully remove a spark plug wire's cap from one of the accessible spark plugs, plug in the spare spark plug, hold the assembly by the insulated cap but place the threads of the spark plug on the engine cylinder head or structural engine part nearby, and have the helper crank the engine for 5 seconds. See whether you observe a spark jump the gap across the plug from the center electrode to the wire tip on the plug for the full 5 seconds of cranking. If you don't and for example you only get a spark for a second or not at all then the problem is with the ignition system rather than the fuel system.
Another thing you might try is to do a fault code readout of the memory of the engine control module. I am not certain if this can be done via the ignition key but give it a try. Turn the key:"on-off-on-off-on and leave on" doing this in an elapsed time of 5 seconds or less. Than observe the odometer window on the instrument cluster to see if it changes to show and 4 digit numbers which are fault codes. Let me know what they are if it reads out and we can go from there. Tell me which engine you have (2.4L 4 cyl or 2.5L 6 cyl. It may be that the sensor for the cam or crankshaft position is breaking down after running for a few minutes, which is not uncommon, and it would likely behave in this manner if the spark signal were weak. There is a code for that. Or it could be a malfunction of the coolant temp sensor or the exhaust gas recirculation valve which would affect the air/fuel ratio which is another variant of a fuel issue.
If no numbers appear in the window, then the memory can only be accessed via plugging a diagnostic readout box into a recptacle that is under the dash near the steering column. That would be difficult if you can't get the car to a shop with such a reader, however. You might evaluate whether to buy an OBD-II type reader for around $100 or borrow one; given the cost of labor or a tow to a shop it might be the best use of money.
So lets do a little testing before jumping to the conclusion you have a fuel pump problem.
Roland
AnswerHi Terry,
I am glad that you can get the car to start and run at times which frees you up to go to an Autozone for a free readout for fault codes. If not available, at least get a readout somewhere. It sounds to me like the coolant temperature sensor is off value. If you have an ohmmeter you can check that yourself. Just see if it reads in the range of 10,000 ohms or more when the engine is cold. It is located near the thermostat housing which has the large top hose from the radiator attached to it. Remove the two wire plug and measure across the terminals. You will know if you have found the sensor by its wire colors:tan/black and black/light blue.
The fuel pump only runs for a second when you first turn the key to the run position. So listen for it, both before you try to start it and also after it dies. That should resolve the issue of it being the fuel pump. It will only run continuously when the engine is being cranked or is running under its own power, and usually the noise level is too high to know at that point whether it is running well.
Other than that, everything I suggested in my first response still applies. Please re-read it and see which of the things you can do and do them. Otherwise, I am afraid you will need to pay someone else to get to the bottom of the issue. So it is up to you.
Roland
