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The text above is a follow-up to ...
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Sebring with 2.5 engine,no spark,no codes(just 12 and 55).Replaced dist.,crank sensor,dist cap,rotor button.Checked all fuses and relays.Fuel pump runs for a couple seconds when switch turned on as it should.Fuel getting to injectors.Checked for spark straight out of coil tower and had none.Manual says relay on firewall controls ASD,bench tested all three relays found on firewall checked out ok.Checked wiring for short,and all electrical plugs,I've run out of ideas.
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Hi Dean
I think we need to focus on the distributor. First make sure that at the single pin, that has a wire attached to it of the 2-pin plug, that you are getting 12V when the engine is being cranked. That is the power for the primary coil that should be supplied by the ASD.
Then if that is present let's check for continuity of the wires from the 6-pin plug to the pcm:
1 black/light blue to pin 43
2 orange or orange/white to 44
3 tan/yellow to 33
4 not used
5 black to ground
6 black/gray to either 11 or 4 (I can't be sure which)
Then I would probe the wires at the crank sensor with fine pins, and measure the voltages with the ignition 'on' while turning the crankshaft pulley bolt by hand with a socket and breaker bar on the pulley bolt:
8V on the orange/white wire
and between the gray/black and black/light blue that you get an oscillating voltage from 5 to 0V three times for each full turn of the crank.
I am using the wiring diagrams for the 2.5L for the '96 Cirrus and the '98 Sebring convt. I have a '95 Sebring Coupe manual but I suspect it is not applicable to your 97 because that was the first year of the vehicle. So if there are discrepencies let me know and I'll give you wiring assignments from that '95 manual.
Let me know if you find something interesting or the answer as to why no spark. I assume that all the new parts are ok but we may have to look into those.
Roland
Hi Roland
Well I've done the checks you suggested,there is no 12v on the pin in the 2-pin plug on the dist,also checked the other pin had nothing,the wire itself had a little over a volt when cranking.The continuity checks ok,6 does go to 11 not 4 the only different was the color codes on a couple of the wires,2 yellow not orange, 6 red with a green or gray stripe not black but thats probably the differences in the manuals as you said.Had to stop for work so didn't get to check crank sensor but had already found 8v in the 6-pin plug that I guess is from the crank sensor.Seems that it could be the ASD but my manuals only reference to it is the relay that checks ok.I don't know where it's at,looks like or if it's serviceable.
Thanks
Dean
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Hi Dean,
The '95 coupe manual shows there to be 4 relays in a bank on the firewall in front of the driver. From center out toward fender they are fuel pump, ASD, electronic transaxle, and back-up lamp.
If you look in the ASD socket, the forward pin (8) should have 12V on it from fusible link 3 in the power distribution center under the hood, direct from the battery. When the relay is activated (pin 6 (outboard) which gets the same 12V as 8, and PCM grounds pin 4 (inboard) when it has received the crank and cam signals) the relay closes and sends 12V on pin 2 (rear pin of the socket) to the distributor single wire, to the injectors, to the oxygen sensors. So either the PCM is not getting the signals (but that would cause an 11 or a 54 code) or the PCM isn't doing its job or the grounding wire (ASD 4 to PCM 67) is open, or the relay has bad internal contacts. So your problem is to get 12V onto pin 2 of the relay socket. You could jump from 8 to 2 which is like closing the relay and see if the engine starts (but don't leave it that way), and then you would know that path is ok. Then find out why the relay isn't closing (PCM/signals issue)or isn't feeding voltage if it does close (corroded points internal).
So I think you are near the answer.
Roland
Hi Roland
Well having to work over,not much time for this car anyway about the relays.3 relays in a bank on the firewall.All are the same,an inboard pin to center of car,outboard to fender and 3 in the center from front to back.It seems to be working as follows,front constant 12v,outboard constant ground,inboard receives 12v when switch turned on,but for only about a second,then that changes continuity from center and back pin to front and back pin.I jumped 12v to back pin still had no voltage to dist.Next I will get some help and check crank sensor volts like you said before since crank and cam sensor start this whole process.Could it be the condenser,I know on older vehicles it would kill spark,was going to swap it out but checked and it was $185.
AnswerHi Dean,
Do you know what the three relays are assigned to? My manual shows there to be four, as I described.
I can't be sure of the orientation of the sockets, but I base my number assignments on the wiring diagrams and the socket as illustrated but without a clear indication of which pin is "forward", etc. Try to find some numbers on the socket or the relay or see if you can tell which wire colors go to which pins of the plug:
The ASD plug has 4 wires: red/black to pin 8; a jumper between 8 and 6 (probably attached to the plug that is black/white), and those two wires should have 12v on them all the time; pin 4 has a red/white and it should either be floating or have 12v on it* when the ignition is off; and pin 2 is black/red also, but it should have no voltage on it as the car sits at rest but appears to be grounded because it provides power to all the items I listed earlier (including the spark coil) that are low resistance-to- ground components so the wire would appear to be grounded. What should happen when you turn the ignition to 'run' with the relay in its socket is that 12v should be applied to pin 2 for about 1 second, then disappear, and similarly pin 4 should be grounded for about 1 second and then revert to 12v or floating. That is basically the action of the safety switch function of the ASD. Then when you start cranking it, the same thing should happen only it will not revert back to status quo ante as long as you are cranking or the engine is running.
Roland
*This is the actuation pin for the relay coil, one end of the coil always has 12v (pin 6) and the other end is controlled by a transistor in the PCM (plug 4 wire goes to pin 67 at the PCM) and that would close the relay if pin 4 is grounded by the PCM. The relay would remain open if either pin 4 has 12v on it or is free floating, that is why I can't be sure which.
