QuestionQUESTION: Sir,
I have a 1937 Packard, 1501 Club Sedan. Recently the car would not turnover after it had been idling for about 30 minutes. Once the car had set for approximately 20 minutes it started immediately. Any Suggestions?
ANSWER: I need a little more information: what do you mean by won't turnover?
If you operate the starter and the engine doesn't turn, the problem is either a poor electrical connection, a failing starter, or an engine that has one of the following 2 problems: too tight clearances, or a liquid leak into a cylinder.
If the engine does turn when you try to start it, but does not run on it's own without the starter turning it, the problem is either lack or surplus of fuel in the cylinders, or a disconnect in the ignition system.
You say this happened recently - I need to know, did it happen just that once, or does it continue to do this?
I need to know which path to go down to help you get it working right again.
Tell me exactly what happens, - what you do, what you hear, and what you see when this happens.
Include what happens when it does restart, also, including a description of any noises and/or tailpipe emissions.
With that information, there is a good chance that I can help you.
Without that information, I can sit here and type all day and not hit on the right cause.
Dick
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Dick,
Thank you for such a rapid response.
My Packard had not been started for several weeks, so I started it and let it run for approximately 30 minutes. I turned off the engine and later tried to start the car within approximately 10 minutes. The starter would not turn over the engine, it would not even make a sound. But after setting idle for 20 minutes it started right up. The starter seemed to be quite hot to the touch when it would not crank over the engine.It would appear that maybe the starter is overheating and shutting down.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Paul
AnswerOk, thanks for getting back to me with that information.
There are two possible symtoms left to sort out:
1. If the starter actually does turn the engine a small distance and then stops turning (watch the fan blades), you probably have a fluid leak into one of the cylinders. If this is the case, remove the spark plugs after you set the stage for the problem (by running it for 30 minutes, then turning it off). Then try to restart it after 10 minutes - if it now spins freely (with the spark plugs out), it will probably expel some fluid from one or more of the spark plug holes. Identify the fluid by smell, consistency or color - it will be either gasoline or coolant, and that will tell you what has gone wrong.
If it is gasoline, the problem is that your carburetor is leaking gas into the intake manifold after the warm engine is shut down.
If it is coolant, you have either a failed head gasket or a crack in the casting of either the head or the block, near the cylinder which filled with fluid.
The other symptom is where the starter cannot turn a hot engine at all, even with the spark plugs removed.
If this is your case, do this: Drive the car to a hill, and turn off the engine after you've parked with the car headed downhill. Let it sit for the 10 minute interval so that you have set up the situation where you know it won't crank (try the starter to verify that), then let the car roll down the hill with the ignition on and the transmission in 2nd gear with your foot on the clutch, then when you get up to about 10 MPH, let the clutch out. The engine will either start easily, or it will skid the tires for a moment, and then probably it will finally start.
If it skids the tires, your engine is suffering from very tight clearances. Either crankshaft bearings are set too tightly, or the crankshaft main bearings were not properly align bored when the engine was last rebuilt, or the pistons were fitted too tightly in the cylinders. Since everything expands with heat, such a situation always causes problems when the engine is hot.
On the other hand, if it now starts on the hill easily, with no dragging of the tires, we are left with the possiblity you suspect; a failure of the starter or its circuit. By far the most likely cause of this is a starter that needs rebuilding, either due to a grounded armature type failure which occurs only when the starter is hot, or due to some other heat related problem inside the starter.
I suppose it is remotely possible that the starter switch itself is heat sensitive, but I rather doubt that. If you can borrow a spare starter from some other car to do a substitution, you can probably demonstrate that the problem is with your starter. If you live near a large city, you may be able to find one of the few remaining starter-generator rebuilding shops that are locally owned, in which case you can just take the starter there and have them rebuild and test it. Your only other choice is to have a commecial starter rebuilding service do the job for you. That is a very heavy duty starter, so if the local auto stores are afraid to tackle it, take it to a farm equipment repair facility - they deal with very high power starters freqently, even 6 volt ones.
I assume you know that you need VERY GOOD battery cables in this car - they should be made of size "00" cable, and have soldered on ends, and both ends of both cables have to be attached to clean bright shiny metal terminals. Brillman company makes suitable cables for our old 6 volt cars with batteries under the seats - the cables will be as big as a man's thumb! Also, your battery has to be a VERY GOOD one - in fact I recommend the Optima battery for these cars - it has an excellent current delivery specification, better than the original type batteries. It is also very important that the metal to metal contact from the starter case to the engine block must be clean bright shiny metal, with no paint to interfere with conductivity, and for the chassis ground cable to be the best you can find. These starters can pull over 400 amperes, so even 1/100 of an ohm resistance total, for the whole circuit from battery post through the cables and the ground return circuit, and the starter switch resistance, would reduce your battery voltage available to operate the starter from 6.8 volts to under 3 volts!
Good luck, and please let me know how you make out with this.
I had a customer with a 1935 Super 8 whose recently rebuilt engine would not re-start when hot, due to very slow cranking speed. I replaced both battery cables and the battery using the above items, and it transformed the car into a reliable, quick starting car, even with a quite tight engine.
Dick
