Classic/Antique Car Repair: 1959 Ford Retractable, independent repair shops, rear gears

Question
Hi Dave

1.  We had the car shipped to Milwaukee from California last Thanksgiving and it worked a couple of times.  I don't think I would say that the gears engaged perfectly, but we could close the top.

2.  Rear gears are spinning and locking down.  Its looks to me like they are all the way down.  

3.  The gears are in the hole but won't engage, like they were spining backwards.  No matter how hard we pull down on the top, we can't get both sides to engage.  Sometimes we can get one side or the other, but never both down at the same time.  Could the worm gear or female part be worn so much as not to engage and pull down the top?  We moved the worn gear around and that didn't seem to help.  Are we missing a step in retract process?  
Any ideas?  I would like to buy another 59 retract, but it has top problems too.  Hate to get stuck with two non-working tops.  Car is in California, so I can't look at it in person.

Thanks
Daryl












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Followup To
Question -
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Hi Dave
When the roof is retracting it has no problems until it is to latch into the front winshield.  Both gears spin on the front but don't catch.  
Any ideas on how to fix?

Thanks
Daryl
70 442 ragtop oai
70 Mach 1 r code 428 4 speed
59 Retractable
94 GT conv
Followup To
Question -
Hi
Who and were in Milwaukee WI  \can I get work done to a 59 Ford Retractable?

Thanks
Daryl
Answer -
Hi Daryl.  Sorry, but I'm on the West Coast and I don't know any mechanics here OR where you live that work on the old classics.  I do my own work.

If you'd like, send me a description of what the problem is and maybe I can help describe a repair procedure...or maybe if it's not too specific to the older cars, I do find that in some independent repair shops there are still some "oldtimers" that at least speak the language of the '59's.

Write back using Allexperts' fol









low-up question feature.

Dave
Answer -
Hello again Daryl, I'm glad you wrote back.  

Let's make sure I'm clear on the problem because what you're describing is impossible!!!!........................ (yuck, yuck).  It seems that with retractables the impossible is quite often the possible...and the most likely too.

It would help me if you could answer these questions:

1.  Up til now the front roof gears engaged perfectly?
________________________________________________________________________

2.  What are the rear roof gears doing when the front are spinning?  
    Are they spinning too or have the engaged? _________________________________________________________________________

    Are they all the way down?____________________________________________

3.  For the offending front gears, how close is the male part to the female part?  Are you saying that the male is hovering just above the female and can't reach her?  ______________________________________________________________

   Are you saying they are in contact but the gears aren't aligned?____________________________________________________________________________

At this point don't try to make your answers short to save me time.  Be as descriptive as you can.  Tell me what's changed about the car since it worked fine.  Tell me about any different noises you hear or things that seem odd.

If I knew how to take digital videos and send them like pictures and be able to view them on both sides of the country I'd say do that too.

From here it sounds like an alignment problem, but that's not a simple fix and I don't want to suggest getting into that process til we've confirmed that.

Dave  

Answer
Daryl,

Generally speaking its ideal when the front and rear screws hit their respective holes simultaneously.  If your rear screws are locking down while the fronts haven't yet engaged it would seem the front edge of the top is arriving at the winshield "late" probably because the roof is raked, meaning the front edge is higher or the rear edge is lower than they should be.  Consequently, the front screws are entering the  holes at improper angles...so its understandable they might touch but not engage.

It seems unusual that this condition would just happen...but regardless of how it happened, this is how I'd proceed:

1.  Before attempting any top adjustments I'll describe below, remove any trunk panels so you can easily see the two Power Links and the two Control Links, especially where they meet the car's frame.

(The Power Links are the two arms attached to the roof closer to the front of the car.  The Control Links are the two arms attached to the roof at its rearmost points).

1a.  Determine by eye that each arm is shaped the same as its twin...sometimes through stresses or bad repairs the arms will become misshapen.  Look very closely at the mounting points where the arms meet the car's frame.  Look at all the brackets that are welded to the frame.  What you're looking for is broken welds or bent brackets.  There is at lot of pressure on these points, especially when the mechanism is NOT working smoothly.

If all looks well you'll probably have to adjust the top...but a word of warning...this step often is the same as opening a can of worms.

2.  Changing the length of the Control Arms raises or lowers the front of the top without any appreciable change in the rear of the top.

Study what you want to do before you start.  I've had the best luck setting the rear screws just as they are about to enter their holes, then changing the height of the front of the roof so the front screws are also just about to enter their holes.

Let me know what you find.

Dave