QuestionHi John, Thanks again for your thorough answer. I took the car to a local Toyota dealership who normally does the oil changes on the LR this morning and ask if they could diagnose the Service Engine Light code that came on when I left the LR dealership on Friday. The code (P0303) indicated a faulty #3 spark plug wire - the same wire the LR dealership replaced on Friday. The Toyota service person said the replacement wire showed usage and wear and also said the other spark plug wires would need replacing soon. Now, either LR put on a used wire on Friday or the wire got frayed in the 5 minutes it took me to drive out of the dealership. LR said nothing about the other wires on Friday, although today when I called they indicated I would need to have them done "in a few months." Is there anything else that might fry a new spark plug wire in 5 minutes driving time? My trust level at this point is pretty much at zero. Thanks again, Sherry
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Followup To
Question -
Dear John, I have owned a 2001 Land Rover Discovery II for about 18 months. The Service Engine light has been coming on intermittently - it will be on for a while then go off. A LR dealership diagnosed a faulty spark plug wire and replaced it on Friday, but as I drove away from the dealership after the repair the light flashed back on. I drove back immediately, and was told the car probably needed a valve job. The car only has 58,000 miles and has been serviced regularly. I use only high octane gas and there is no knocking or engine noise and the car runs fine. The tachometer reading appeared eratic (i.e., not matching the acceleration speed) at the time the light flashed on and the car seemed to shimmy. I drove home (100 miles) because I couldn't leave it over the weekend, and the light was on for a while but has since gone off - following the regular pattern. Can it be something other than a valve problem? I can't imagine a car with only 58,000 miles needing valve service. As far as repair history, it has been minimal at least since I have had it. I have had the brakes redone and changed the oil and followed the regular maintenance schedule. Within the last week, however, a "hub" has to be replaced (diagnosed when the downhill light, TC and ABS lights went on). The part has been ordered. I'm also having to have the ignition lock cylinder replaced to fix a problem with not having to put the car in park before removing the key. That part has been ordered, too. Thank you so much - I am so glad to have found this web site! Sherry
Answer -
Hi Sherry,
on Disco II's, many owners have complaints about the sticking exhaust valves that eventually result in a valve job. It can start at the 50,000 mile marker and return every 50,000 miles (according to some experts).
John Robison has excellent articles on the subject and you should read up on this to understand what has to be done.
http://www.roversnorth.com/LRinfomenu.html
The spark plug may have been faulty but they should not have let you go (the first time) without telling you about the valve problems. Perhaps they didn't look at that as a possibility. This is something you should consider if you want them to continue working on your Disco. Do you have other LR repair shops in your area?
The tachometer really measures the rotation of your alternator. IF the tach is acting up...it could be your alternator or perhaps the serpentine belt and one of the pulleys. There has to be proper tension from the belt on all of the pulleys. If the belt slips on the alt pulley OR if a pulley is seizing up, the tension can fluctuate and you'll see the tach behave oddly. It will also affect the charging of your battery.
My experience with alt's has convinced me that if you see the tach misbehave, have the components examined right away. The alternator (at least on my Disco) has been known to fail due to this problem and its about $700 to replace.
Most local garage mechanics can check your belt, pulleys and even determine the state of your alt and the charging of the battery. PLUS: It won't cost as much as the dealer!
The 'three amigos', a term I've coined for the ABS, TC an HDC lights, is also a common problem. Its possible that you have a wheel hub problem. I hope that solves the problem for you. Other owners have had to replace wheel sensors, the ABS pump, valves, relays...its a never-ending problem. I hope this is not the case for you.
Last comment:
A fellow Disco II owner wrote to me about the very same problems you describe. Faced with huge repair bills, like you, he decided to voice his anger to LRNA. He called them and finally spoke to a LR representative, "Gary".
Gary is unaware that these problems exist with the Disco II. He's never heard of the valve job problem and the three lights that shine so bright. SO, in order to help educate Gary, I'm asking you to give Gary a call and let him know you are having these same problems. Imagine working for LR and never knowing the problems we owners face. We have to help Gary.
Here's Gary's number: # 1-800-637-6837. Hit 9 then follow instructions to add extension
Best of luck with this,
JohnMc
NB: a excerpt from an article posted on the web by John Robison dated February 20, 2000:
"Robison On Rovers
Carbon Fouling – A New Kind of Valve Job"
Many of you have heard about the carbon fouling problem affecting newer Discoveries and Range Rovers. This is a problem that affects Rovers using the 4.0 engines – primarily 1996 and newer Discoveries. This does not generally affect earlier Rovers – those with 3.9 engines.
I do not know what percentages of Rovers are affected, but it is significant. Some of you learned about sticky valves when your Rover began losing power and you took it to the shop for diagnosis. If you were lucky, your truck was fixed under warranty. Others have heard or read about the problem on the Internet or elsewhere.
The first symptom of this problem is a sudden and momentary loss of power. While driving, usually at highway speed, one or more valves stick and the engine staggers. If the staggering goes on for more than 30 seconds the Check Engine warning light will come on, and a fault code will be stored in memory. As a rule, the problem clears up just as suddenly as it came on, and may not occur for days or even weeks.
This misfiring happens without warning. It may happen once a month, or it may happen daily. As a rule, the problem gets worse with time and temperature. It usually happens with a fully warmed up Rover engine. In my experience, valve sticking seems to get worse on hot humid summer days. The valves that stick are the exhaust valves, so they are resistant to cleaning techniques like pouring injector cleaner or valve cleaner into the engine. Why? Because whatever you pour in has been burned in the engine before it reaches the exhaust valves so it doesn't do much good. Those products can help with sticky intake valves but that's not our problem here.
Those of you whose trucks are under warranty and have sticky valves can have the repair procedure performed at no charge by your dealer. If your truck is not in warranty, though, you can be looking at a big bill – perhaps over $2,000. In this article I'm going to take you through the steps involved in doing the job. Before we begin, I caution you that this is not a job for most do-it-yourself mechanics.
Nonetheless, even if a professional does the actual work you'll be better off the more you know, so read on.
<see the website for more of the pdf article> john.
AnswerHi Sherry,
I can't believe what I'm reading...a LR dealership replaced the #3 cyl spark plug wire based on a P0303 code? That's all they did? Seems that they replaced it with an spare wire too. oh, boy.
Normally, that code indicates that a misfire was detected in cyl. #3. It could mean one of many things:
Faulty spark plug or wire
Faulty coil (pack)
Faulty oxygen sensor(s)
Faulty fuel injector
Burned exhaust valve
Faulty catalytic converter(s)
Running out of fuel
Poor compression
Stuck/blocked EGR valve / passages
Faulty camshaft position sensor
Defective computer
Usually, a good mechanic would swap the spark plug wire out, reset the code and wait an see what happens by test driving the vehicle for a couple of days. You mentioned that you picked up the Disco and had to bring it back immediately. Perhaps the same code was triggered BUT no one test drove it (?).
I've seen this before. Its possible the garage swapped in a spare wire, ran the engine and saw no code ... problem solved! "Next Disco, please!" Maybe someone should have taken the time to test drive the Disco, just to make sure. They managed to drive it to the parking lot for your pickup.
IF your wire was 'fried' or abused, the only source would be the coilpack. They've been known to have intermittent problems that can affect engine performance.
Do you have any of these problems:
the engine may be hard to start?
the engine may stumble and/or hesitate from time to time?
If so, have the coilpack tested...somewhere and by someone you trust.
Best of luck with this..
JohnMc
NB: Your dealership should have been more thorough with your problem. I'd consider looking for another LR service shop.
