QuestionI have a clacking sound coming from my motor on acceleration or revving. It developed a few days ago, and got worse while the techs were running it for troubleshooting. It is audible at highway speeds. I took it to the dealer, only to have them not work on it for two days. I have <7K miles on it. I am not confident in their abilities, as I have a 20 yr old mechanic that is troubleshooting it. ALl they've done so far is listen to it, pull the covers off and look at stuff, and put it on the dyno while listening to it.
A couple questions:
1) Shouldn't they have done a compression test to see if one of the pistons is rattling around in it's cylinder?
2) Shouldn't they have been able to narrow the noise down with a stethescope?
3) Is there any way to get a firm idea about what this is without tearing the motor down?
4) Should I trust the "average" dealership service dept. with this job or take it to a performance shop?
5) About how much should a stock engine cost to tear down and put back together? Can you just replace components with stock from Yamaha?
See http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32808&highlight=blow... for more info on the problem.
Thanks!
Mark
AnswerHi Mark,
Sorry to hear about the symptoms you've experienced with your R1. Hope all turns out well.
1) Shouldn't they have done a compression test to see if one of the pistons is rattling around in it's cylinder?
A: Right. Cylinder compression followed by a leak-down.
2) Shouldn't they have been able to narrow the noise down with a stethescope?
A: Not necessasarily. Mechanic's stethascopes are useful, but may not always reveal the source of the sounds, as you have discovered.
3) Is there any way to get a firm idea about what this is without tearing the motor down?
A: Most likely. Drain engine oil into a clean drain pan. Examine the oil for evidence of engine damages. Look for particles of metal suspended in the oil. You would know if there was a problem. It will be obvious.
4) Should I trust the "average" dealership service dept. with this job or take it to a performance shop?
A: It's a buyers beware market, so to speak. Ask for references and the tech's certifications. Did he attend AMI or MMI? Has he sucsessfully completed the Factory training programs?
Check with your local Better Business Bureau and investigate customer complaints on the business.
Quiz the tech: Ask him if he knows what "deck height" means. He should reply, "Deck Height is the distance the piston EDGE is in relation to the top of the cylinder deck."
Also, see the information file titled "In Tech We Trust" below.
5) About how much should a stock engine cost to tear down and put back together? Can you just replace components with stock from Yamaha?
A: I'm guessing.... about 15 hours labor? Yes, OEM stock replacement parts are available.
6) See http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32808&highlight=blow... for more info on the problem.
A: I read the posts. Very supportive group. Some accurate advice there.
Describe your riding habits to me. Do you use this R1 to roadrace, ride aggressively on the street, take it easy (meaning: obey all traffic laws), or stunt ride?
Describe the appearance of the spark plugs to me. Often evidence of engine failure visible here.
Do you run everyday pump gasolines? Use any gasoline additives? Use race fuel from a sealed container such as VP or FassGass?
Describe any performance modifications and work performed on your R1. Any clutch work?
What brand, type, viscosity of engine oil have you used? I think I read Yamaha oil filters in one of the posts, but don't remember which oil.
Respectfully,
Mark Shively
Dayton, Ohio
email: mshively1@woh.rr.com
"In Tech We Trust"
The Philosophy Of Mechanical Service And The Mechanic
By John Covington
If you ride a motorcycle, you have a relationship with a machine. Your motorcycle will bring you years of joy and satisfaction if you have a positive relationship. Just like the association with your spouse, kids or buddies; the amount of energy you put into your mechanical connection with your motorcycle directly correlates with your level of enjoyment. If you aren't a mechanic, you'll need an association with a trustworthy motorcycle technician. Your life is on the line every time you throw your leg over your bike, so your dependence on your chosen tech is vitally important.
"In the wind". This Airplane/Motorcycling analogy is right on the money. It describes the feeling you relish in flying down the asphalt on your two wheeled freedom machine. It's a cliche' phrase that is used to describe the experience that you have when you're out on the open road with the wind in your hair. It describes the exhilaration and thrill when your scooter is functioning smoothly.
Everyone is aware of the eminent dangers associated with riding a motorcycle; just ask your mom. That's part of the thrill involved. Nobody I know wants the "thrill" that a mechanical failure can bring. With motorcycles, unlike airplanes, you have the option to service your machine on your own. Did you know that even if you are a master aviation technician, the FAA (Federal Aeronautics Administration) does not allow you to service your private airplane yourself? Their restrictive reasoning prevents cutting corners to save a buck or two on routine airplane maintenance. If you did, you'd risk your own safety, the safety of your passengers and others who could be injured if a mechanical failure occurs during flight-- Otherwise known as "mechanical Russian Roulette".
Before each flight an airplane pilot will physically walk around his craft and inspect his plane for basic safety issues. A motorcycle rider should be no less vigilant. User-friendly checks of lighting, horn function, tire pressure, and oil levels should be a routine. Usually at 2500-mile intervals the manufacturer requires a "maintenance service" to sustain your motorcycle's warranty, safety and reliability. This requirement dictates a periodic service, and itís much more than just an oil change.
Most people who ride dont have all the specialty equipment required to properly maintain and service their modern motorcycle. Even certified automotive mechanics usually do not have the tools or expertise to handle a typical 10,000-mile service on a Harley-Davidson motorcycle. So chances are, no matter how crafty you are in the home-shop or garage, you'll end up requiring the services of a motorcycle repair facility sooner or later. This is where the "relationship" starts, and I'd like to provide a little information on how to foster a positive relationship with a shop or technician that you'll entrust with your safety.
Just like a certified aviation technician, a certified motorcycle technician should consider your safety as priority one. The key to any relationship is trust. If you fell and shattered your wrist, would you trust a medical student to set your bones correctly so your wrist would function as good as new? Or would you rather have a board certified orthopedic surgeon with several years of experience. This isn't such a far-fetched analogy when you consider how high the stakes are when you're zipping through traffic at 80 mph. You are entrusting your life to an individual holding a wrench. If you are comfortable with having your buddy's friend who just enrolled in motorcycle school work on your bike in his backyard, so you can save some dough, that's great. Then you should be aware that you would also settle for that first year medical student to set your bones if your bike goes down because your budget-mechanic forgot to properly torque your axle nut.
Everyone is human and even the most highly experienced and conscientious mechanic will make a mistake occasionally. However, a quality facility will own up to its errors and make it right when they screw something up. Who knows if your buddy's friend working out of his home garage will do the right thing when he accidentally drops a wrench on your fender and gouges your fresh custom paint job? A penny saved isn't always that penny earned.
Take the time to visit several shops and investigate each. Meet the people who work there and who own the operation. Find other riders and ask them who they intimately trust to work on their bikes. Find out how much experience and education the mechanics have Don't be intimidated by the whole razzle-dazzle speed-secrets that some mechanics will throw at you. If you don't understand what they are talking about, just ask. If you cant get a straight-forward answer or solution to any mechanical problem, run away. These really are just machines. Machines need maintenance and will break. There's no magic wand to repair your bike. It takes knowledge, skill, and the personal awareness of the technician to deliver a quality of service on which you stake your life. That's the key. Find a technician or shop that you feel has your best interests in mind. Sometimes the repairs required are not cheap, but neither is that ride to the hospital in the helicopter from the middle of nowhere.
If you don't respect the facility that's working on your bike, find another. Remember that commercial from a few years back, the one that asked the guy if he was in business for fun or profit? Believe it or not, serious motorcycle businesses are run for a profit. There's many a shop that has been opened because the owner thought it would be fun, but then discovered that fun does not keep the doors open for very long. There's an old adage that long after the sweetness of cheap has vanished, the sour taste of poor quality and inferior craftsmanship lingers on. Look for a shop that is run professionally. You should get a complete estimate that fully explains the cost of all your repairs before you leave your bike for any work. If there are additional repairs needed, they should call you and inform you of what is going on and what it will cost. This insures that you will get what you paid for and nothing less.
Become involved in understanding what is going on with your bike. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Buy a manual and read it. You'll be amazed how much knowledge will help your understanding and communication with mechanics. Expect the same courtesy from your motorcycle shop and technicians that you would expect at a good restaurant. It is a "service" business, so expect to be served.
Mail order motorcycle parts are proliferating everywhere. "Discount" catalogs, mail order, and on-line motorcycle parts are easy to peruse. Sometimes you'll save a few dollars, most of the time you'll end up paying less for the same part at your local shop, and they have it sitting in stock right there on the shelf. Once you figure in your time, the costs of shipping and any defects or warranty issues that may arise with your mail-order part; you may find that what you thought was cheap, really wasn't the best deal. Once again, take the time to find a business run by people with whom you are comfortable dealing with. Check their prices with prices that you've found in the catalogs or on-line.
Relationships are also built on timeliness. A quality facility will respect and value your time. You've got other things to do in your life besides schlepping your motorcycle to the shop, getting a ride home, and then missing a weekend ride with your buddies because a part was "back-ordered". It is reasonable to expect the parts that you need for your project to be available when you are scheduled to have the service or customization performed. Ride your bike until all the parts are in stock and the service-calendar at your shop is ready for your operation. If you feel like the shop can't organize the components that you need, before you drop the bike off, there's a good chance that they won't know what you'll need to get the job done right. After you're committed and your bike is in pieces, then you're in way too deep.
Finally, what's right for the goose isn't always right for the gander. Just because you saw some new whiz-bang omni-gobulator on some show-winning machine in a magazine doesn't mean that it will perform on your bike. Ask your trusted mechanic or shop-owner what they think of a component in regards to your machine. They work with this stuff everyday. Chances are they will steer you towards components that are proven to work. Experience dictates that if a part fails more than once, a reputable shop will stop offering that component. A motorcycle shop can't exist for very long suggesting failed parts. Look for an existing track record of long-term quality relationships with vendors and customers when choosing a shop for your machine. Components from different manufacturers don't always fit together, and it takes years of experience to know what fits what.
Relationships are a two way street. Your relationship with your local motorcycle shop should be no different. Respect is earned, and a shop should earn your respect and confidence before receiving your hard earned money. In turn, you deserve to have the piece of mind to know that your bike is performing up to its highest potential. Be prepared to pay a reasonable price to keep it that way. Most of all, respect anyone, who is working hard to make a living, keeping you rolling down the road safely. Then you've got a successful relationship with the man and the machine. In tech we trust.
Remember, keep the rubber side down.
--John at Steeds
