QuestionLast weekend, my 2001 Outback wagon (61,000 miles) overheated and "blew the head".
HISTORY: We have excellent service record, and had recently had the 60,000 mile check done. Since that check, the car had been a little rough. Prior to that check, the gas mileage had fallen off, and it was not improved by the work done at servicing. I had been smelling something faint, which I thought was ATF burning off after the servicing. Had planned to take car back because of performance drop, but had not gotten around to it.
FAILURE SCENARIO: Last weekend, I was driving 65 - 70 on an interstate. I smelled the engine/coolant so looked at the heat gauge - it was maxed out. Had no advance warning other than the minor things I mention above). I took my foot off gas, moved over to exit lane, and coasted most of the way to the first pull-off - about 1 mile. Car was steaming, and spewing radiator fluid all over, thermometer stayed pegged for a long time after I pulled over. Had car towed to dealer. Diagnosis - "car got very hot and blew the head. Root cause was a stuck thermostat."
MY DILEMMA: I am not a car mechanic and I would like to rely on my “experts” to advise me, but I don't feel comfortable with the SM for several reasons. The SM didn't seem to have a good reason for why they blame the thermostat and not the head gaskets as primary cause. The SM has contradicted himself on numerous important points in the discussion, and has said some things which are obviously not true. (Telling me that he had given quote to my husband, and my husband had authorized repair, telling me that I had authorized repair – both of which are just not true. SM has tried to avoid talking with me about the proposed work. SM has had three different stories about how hot the car got: It badly overheated, it didn’t get very hot at all, and we don’t know how hot it got because the computer only registers a max temp of 200 degrees. And a few other points. I just don't feel comfortable with the credibility issue.
DEALER’S STANCE: As a gesture of good will, they will replace the head gasket (I don't know if it is one or both) and thermostat for free. Only that. I say, “Thank you, but let’s see if Subaru might be willing to help here too, since I’m covered under the warranty extension of WWP99. I think since it overheated that the seals, belts and hoses may need to be replaced. Even if Subaru says no to help, I would like the option to pay for new parts to make sure the repair holds.” He says: "We don't want to bother with Subaru, your car is not covered by warranty because the thermostat failed first, nothing else needs to be done, and why are you worrying? because we’ll guarantee if for a year. . .” Now to me, for a car like this, one year is nothing. About 8,000 miles. I want to make sure it is fixed right, so I can keep it for 100,000 more miles - and trust it. They seem to want to fix it fast and get it out – and I don’t understand why I’m being treated dismissively. (He did tell me that he wants my husband to come down so they can talk. But my husband knows nothing at all about cars. . . )
QUESTION TO YOU: Can you tell me if after a catastrophic failure like this:
1) Is it possible to firmly diagnose that the root cause was a stuck thermostat, and not headgasket failure, especially given that my car is known to be among the ones prone to HG failure?
2) Should I push the point about involving SOA, or should I just resign myself to picking up all additional expenses and live with the dealer’s recommendations?
3) Does it not make sense to replace seals, belts and hoses before putting car back together?
4) What other things should be done while engine is torn apart, to ensure that I have the best chance possible of long life from this repair?
5) I worry about gunk in the radiator, from this failure and from the additive which they put in there to prevent the head gasket from failure? (It was added in 2004, and probably again this summer at the 60,000 mile service.) What is reasonable to do to ensure that the radiator is not a problem?
The whole attitude towards me has been tantamount to ‘don’t worry your pretty little head over this, we know what is best and nothing more needs to be done.’ I do not know of another place in the Washington DC area to get an independent opinion. I feel that Subarus are very specialized, and that I am probably already working with the best dealer in the area. And I am appreciative that they are willing to do the HG replacement for free. But if that is all that is done, I will have to sell the car because I won’t trust it. And I don't trust the guidance I'm getting from them.
Can you offer some guidance? I would be very grateful. Thank you.
AnswerFaith,
I know you are upset but a lot of what you are saying does not add up.
The thermostat is a mechanical device, subject to failure and can easily be tested in a pot of hot water.
The head gaskets are covered by Subaru up to 100k and seven years if the Vin# fell into the "WWP99"(which it sounds like it did) and that is who is paying for the repair regardless of the song and dance being provided by whoever you are talking to. But this applies to "external" leaks from the head gaskets.
Subaru will only pay for the head gaskets, seals and gaskets to do the repairs, oil , oil filter and coolant.
I cannot imagine the Subaru dealer not wanting to charge you money to replace the timing belt, water pump, etc at time of repairs.
Did the vehicle have a 60k service and was the condition of the thermostat evaluated at that time? The ECM (Engine Control Module) is capable of reading much higher temperatures than 200 degrees by the way the ECM doesn't even command on the cooling fans until temperatures around 200 degrees.
Most likely too much of the additive has restricted the radiator, causing an overheating condition which is commonly mistaken for a faulty thermostat if the diagnoses is done too hastily.
http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gasket-problems-explained/
Justin
