Tires: scalloped tires, michelin x one, honda odyssey

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Followup To
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Followup To
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just posted an issue re brakes on my honda odyssey - result or cause is that my tires are wearing as if the camber is out, but not all the way around the tire.
IE, wear is tapered from outside to inside in areas about 3-4 inches long.
I can understand it being caused by the braking shimmy it has, but wondered if there is something else I need to look at.
My Civic tires are also wearing strange. the lugs are wearing from front to rear (not sure in which direction), but the wear pattern starts again on the next lug. IE the edge of the next lug is high. It makes a lot of noise. I swapped front tires and the noise is reduced. I don't know yet if that will reverse the wear. They were originally very quiet.
Both tire sets are Michelin X-one.

what is causing these strange wear patterns?
Answer -
Bill,

Alignment!

First your Odyssey:  The combination of toe in and camber can give you the wear you describe.

Your Civic:  This is called heel and toe wear, and in some respects it's normal.  But if it gets excessive it will cause noise.  But what you should have done is do a full rotation, not just the fronts.

I should mention that a little extra toe in will aggravate this heel and toe wear, especially on the outside edges.

Thanks for the reply.
I swapped just the fronts to see if I could even the wear and reduce the noise. The tires are not directional. Normally every 5000 miles they are fully rotated on both vehicles.

The alignment has been done about 3 times. It may be out now but I'm feeling the primary cause is the braking shimmy. Anyway, I guess I need to do new tires, alignment and something with the brakes, but I don't know what. Everything suggested has been done before.
Answer -
Bill,

I hope you're not thinking that once the problems are fixed the tire wear will correct itself.  Sorry it just doesn't work like that - you can only wear rubber OFF!

It is possible to wear a new pattern into a tire and that new pattern might erase the old pattern, but if you can see a wear pattern usually it is too late.  

I would suggest for the future that you invest some time into inspecting your tires on a regualr basis - monthly.  Check the pressure, rub the tires for bulges, and look a the wear pattern.  This should prevent anything from becoming so bad it can't be fixed.

Hope this helps.
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I'm not sure you are reading what I am writing.
What I am trying to do is to figure out what the root cause of the problems are so that I can fix them. Your assumption that I don't check my tires is totally incorrect as I have indicated re rotation and balance. In fact, I found the problems AFTER the dealer did the R&B and didn't mention anything about it. The lugs or cleats on the tires I swapped are now flat. If I swap the back ones I guess they will get back to flat also. BUT that doesn't solve the problem of how they got that way in the first place.

Out of curiosity, if you swap directional tires what will be the result? - relative to tire wear?

thanks for your time.

Answer
Bill,

You're trying to find the root cause of the misalignment by discussing this over the internet - not a good way to do this as there are quite a few ways the alignment could be off.  The best way to hands on.  

Plus, it's a little unclear what order things have happened.  When you mentioned 3 alignments, it sounded like you have had 3 alignment done to fix this problem.  Now it sounds like the alignments were routine maintenance.

Take your vehicle to an alignent shop and you'll know for sure.

And your last question - Reversing the direction of directional tires does not really harm anything other than the reason they were directional in the first place - which is probably wet and/or snow traction.

Hope this helps.