QuestionQUESTION: I have a 2010 Camaro SS. I was involved in an accident that caused frame damage. The repair facility did a frame pull. It was later found that the crumple zones on the inner frame rails had damage - they were buckled as they are designed to do.
The repair facility got with my insurance company and they decided the frame rails could be repaired. Rather than buying the inner frame rails, which GM does sell, they chose to instead try to hammer them back into shape.
I have seen several articles that say once a crumple zone crumples it cannot be repaired back and still provide the same safety that it is designed to do. I have also read that the chance of injury is greater because airbags are calibrated based on a properly functioning frame. With this frame now weakened, the safety of the vehicle has diminished.
I have a few questions. First, why was this option ever explored? I don't know if the damage to the crumple zones is because of the frame pull or the accident. Second, should my insurance company have allowed the repair facility to even attempt to repair it in this manner? Third, is the question about repairing crumple zones and their ability to perform properly something that is debatable?
My insurance adjuster, upon taking it back after the damage was discovered by another facility, said the signs of damage was obvious and it never should have been returned to me in that condition. It was repaired by a Chevy dealership body shop.
I am extremely frustrated right now. The repair facility claims a GM representative as well as a representative from my insurance company both looked at the repairs and approved them. I asked for the names of the two people. The shop is refusing to give it to me.
I am going to be picking my car up this week with a frame that is still damaged. They tried to hide it once already. Now they are saying it meets GM specifications. They have had my car this second time for 26 days as of today. They had it 27 days the first time.
My car is worth $28K. I have high insurance limits as well. They can replace the inner frame rails and still only be at half the cars value. I'm just wondering why a Chevy body shop would even attempt to do this if it is indeed a safety concern.
ANSWER: Jim,
You raise some very astute questions and I am glad to see you take such an active role in your repair and ask such questions. I wish more consumers would! I'm sorry you got into this mess but unfortunately, it happens all too often!
First, repair techniques are applicable to each specific make, model and year and the manner of which they are constructed. Technologies are constantly changing as new materials and methods are discovered and put into manufacturing.
To know for sure which methodology is recommended for your specific vehicle the manufacture’s recommendations should be sought. This may be accomplished by contacting the manufacturer (GM) to see if they have repair specifications and if they are available via a printed manual and/or through on-line resources.
There are other industry resources available as well (e.g. AllData) and your repairer should have them at their disposal.
If no manufacturer recommendations or requirements exist, then your repairer should seek I-Car (I-CAR, the Inter-Industry Conference on Auto Collision Repair, an international, not-for-profit training organization). If they don’t…you may consider changing repairers!
You need to determine what the manufacturer’s recommendations are. For example, the general rule for High Strength, Low Alloy (HSLA) metals in a unitized constructed vehicle, states that if the panel is “kinked” than it should be replaced…if it is only “bent” or “buckled” than it may be able to be repaired…then one needs to find out if it is to be “cold straightened” or if limited heat can be applied and to what limits!?
Now to answer your specific questions:
“First,
Q: “Why was this option ever explored?”
A: To save money!
Q: “I don't know if the damage to the crumple zones is because of the frame pull or the accident”?
A: The damages are resultant from the loss…if the insurer tried to repair them to save money and coerced the repairer into doing it….shame on them both! They are both supposed to work for YOU! It’s your vehicle, your repairer and your insurance company and it's your safety and economic well-being that's at stake…the problem is, insurers often control body shops and neither work for you, the vehicle owner, and they look out for their own best interest while leaving you with the aftermath! Just Say’n…
The repairer is your repair professional and it is their recommendations that you should follow…just like a doctor or attorney…but just like any other professional, they can be held liable for their decisions and poor performance! The insurer will likely blame the repairer and avoid liabilities by saying; “You picked the shop…not us!”…or “Hey! We didn’t fix it…we just paid for the cost of repair” etc.
Now if this shop was the insurer’s choice and they steered you to it…well that’s a different story.
Second:
Q:”Should my insurance company have allowed the repair facility to even attempt to repair it in this manner?
A:That would depend upon your answer to the above…was it your choice of repairer or the insurers?
Third,:
Q: Is the question about repairing crumple zones and their ability to perform properly something that is debatable?
A: Absolutely! When they begin to refuse to give you names and contact information relevant to your personal safety and economic well being…you bet!
Q: I'm just wondering why a Chevy body shop would even attempt to do this if it is indeed a safety concern.”
A: While I don’t know all the specifics and dynamics involved, based upon what we see regularly throughout the country is it’s likely because the repairer obviously sees the insurer as the decision maker and they don’t want to ‘rock the boat’ or lose the insurer’s referrals of future business by getting you involved! That in itself is a crime in my humble opinion and the repairer may be found liable for errors and omissions if it can be established they did not repair your vehicle properly. If the insurer referred or “steered” you to that shop then they too will have a problem!…the issue now is…how far are you are willing to take it!?
“Behaviors Only Change When the Risk Begin to Outweigh the Rewards”
I would like to know where you are (city and state) and if the vehicle was hit in the front or rear and some other information. Feel free to call or e-mail if interested in taking it further.
For a free, no obligation consultation, you can reach me directly at Barrett@AutoDamageExperts.com or (813) 657-6705 during normal business hours Mon-Fri. I’m in Florida.
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QUESTION: I chose the repair facility. I work in downtown Houston, TX, and the accident happened in downtown. I asked the tow truck driver where the nearest Chevy dealer was, and they told me this one. I chose it because of proximity and the dealership told the tow truck driver they would make sure Enterprise had a rental car waiting for me (which they didn't).
The accident happened on the front passenger corner of the vehicle. It' wasn't a 90 degree impact - it was more like a 45 degree impact. Unfortunately, it was a heavy box truck. The repair facility identified the frame damage and submitted a supplement to do a frame pull, which my insurance company approved.
My insurance company has pointed out a couple times that I chose the facility. The repair facility keeps saying they only do what my insurance company tells them to do. The insurance company says no, the facility has to tell them what needs to be done and they are responsible to pay it.
So you are saying there is debate out there about whether a crumple zone can be repaired, right? I have read many articles stating it can't be and that, after a crumple zone has crumpled, even if you put it back into the original shape, a manufacturer can't say with certainty how that crumple zone will react in the future. They also say it will crumple under impacts that it normally may not. They also say that it will not absorb and spread the energy from the impact the same, which subjects a person to greater risk of injury.
The repair facility told me a GM rep came by and approved the repairs. When I asked them for the name of the rep, they wouldn't give it to me. Chevy doesn't have anything online about repairing it.
Thanks. I am at a point now that I'm going to consult an attorney if they refuse to address this. My inner frame rails are bowed at the crumple zones. The passenger side inner frame rail is bowed to the inside of the vehicle (toward the engine). The driver side inner frame rail is bowed to the outside (same direction as the passenger side frame rail).
It's hard to visualize, but let me paint a picture for you. I took a rigid wooden paint stick and put it against a frame of another Camaro. It was flush against the frame for the entire 12 inches or so of the paint stick. I put it against the frame on my Camaro on the passenger side. I pressed the stick flush against the frame rail about 4 inches in front of the crumple zone. The stick was in contact with the rail up to the crumple zone. Beyond the crumple zone, the stick did not make contact with the rail again.
On the driver side, the stick touched the rail both to the front and rear of the crumple zone, except for about a 6" stretch where it didn't touch it at all. The crumple zone was roughly at the center of this 6" expanse that never touched that solid wood paint stick.
My thought is when the frame was damaged, the crumple zones crumpled. When they did the frame pull back toward the passenger side, the crumple zones acted like a hinge point. I was told when they do a frame pull they have a machine that connects to the front corner and pulls from that corner. Instead of having several connection points and pulling the entire frame back, they pull from that one corner. I believe that is what caused this bowing or concaving of my frame, especially since it seems to center around these crumple zones.
Thanks Barrett.
AnswerJim,
Most reasonable and prudent people would select a dealer who “specializes” in their vehicle. There’s a propensity for most to think the dealer would have a level of knowledge and pride in their product others may not. You did what a reasonable and prudent person would likely do in your position.
The shop admitting that they only do what the insurer tells them to…I hope your doctor isn’t like them…especially in a time of great need for you or a loved-one!
I think you’ll find state laws are in place to protect you from those who look to others for direction instead of you the customer. Under most state laws governing auto repairers, the customer is defined as the vehicle’s owner or the one who signs the repair authorization and I’m pretty confident that your insurer didn't!
As it is…your tow guy likely made a quick $50 bucks by getting your car to that shop…
You also relied upon your insurer, as many do, because you have been convinced that they are your insurer….your friend, “Good Neighbors” and that you would be in “Good Hands”!
And as I once did…you figure they have so much oversight by the state and federal government….what could possibly go wrong!? Well…unfortunately, you’re finding out!
You may have a cause of action against the insurer for Diminished Value… Not sure, but I believe Diminished Value is covered in Texas under the Un-Insured motorist portion of your policy…if indeed you have such coverage.
You pretty much checked it how most would…a straight-edge oftentimes is all that’s needed to see if an issue exist…the difficulty is determining what will be needed to correct it!
As I said, my comments are general, you need find out what your vehicles’ manufacturer says. Find out who that GM rep was that approved the repair and allow him to see the repairs and then get his or another GM rep’s assessment….in writing!!!!!!!!!!
You can ask for an audience with their GM territory rep. Just go to another GM Dealership and ask their service manager to make an appointment for you.
Get in touch with me and I'll try and find you a quality repairer in your area to assist you. You have several options but you need someone familiar with your state laws and regulations governing automotive repair and insurance.
Remember Jim: All that's needed for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing! It’s now up to you if you will be a part of the solution…or a part of the ongoing problem!
Either way…Good Luck!
Just say'n...
Barrett
