QuestionQUESTION: Hello...I have had this car for 10 months. It has only 85,000 miles on the little 4 cylinder engine. Car looks like new and has been maintained, the dealership where I have taken it, all were amazed at the condition of the car. i bought it, and took it straight to the dealership to have it looked over and to have them throw some new plugs in it for me and to replace any and all vacuum hoses, belt, etc: The only thing they replaced were the spark plugs, everything else looked like new.
The car when I bought it, had a slight, ever so slight hesitation "somtimes" at highway speeds, sometimes it would happen 2 or 3 times driving it, and sometimes not at all.
After the tune up, It started to bug me, so I got the codes for it, code "23", so I took it to chrysler, and they replaced a sensor and the wiring harness. I had no sooner puled out onto the highway and it started to do the ole hesitation thingy. So..after being out $230, I had to wait another 2 weeks before I could afford to take it back to the dealership, telling them it was still showing code 23, and it was doing the very same thing. So back in it went, and by late afternoon, they called and told me it was ready, they had replaced another "sensor" and another wiring harness. This time it cost me $300. I no sooner got on the highway, and it did it again, got home and checked codes and it was still showing code 23. So I waited till I could once again have the money to have them "fix" it.....a month later I took it in, and this time they kept it for 4 days, calling me on the 4th day, telling me it was ready and that it ran really good now!
Picked the car up, and was on the highway heading to kentucky when it "did it again"!!!!
I have had new plugs, new wires, fuel injection system cleaned, 2 new sensors, new fuel filter, new catalytic converter, 3 different mechanics look and work on it, and it still is doing this hesitation at highway speeds, and now more recently it seems to be wanting to do it at slower speeds too.
Car starts and idles like a top. she purrs.
Also my gas mileage started out last June at 27 to 28 miles to the gallon (and thats with the air on MAX) and thru the fall and winter and into this spring I have been getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 to 22 mpg (without the air).
I guess I am being picky, but this has me stumped and I guess the 3 mechanics who have serviced the car, as they seem to "run" when they see my lil white beauty puling up.
The only thing i can think of that it might be is the pick-up coil, or the 02 sensor for the catalytic converter, the only 2 things that have not been replaced.
Thanks in advance for your time and any words you can throw my way!!
ANSWER: Hi Jack,
May I ask how you are getting the fault code 23? With a diagnostic readout box or by counting flashes of the check engine light? The reason I as is that my '86 shop manual shows the 23 code is pointing to the throttle body temperature sensor. Was that one of the sensors that was replaced and/or had a harness repair? Was the battery disconnected after the previous readout (to erase the earlier code) then driven a bit and checked for new codes? The manual is based on the original diagnotic readout box, the DRB I. I would like to clarify this point before going any further.
It could be the hall effect sensor in the distributor is beginning to fail, which is a code 11. It is possible for example that if the code 23 was based upon a flashing of the check engine light that what you really have is an 11 code plus a 12 code (battery disconnected recently) rather than a 23 code (same total number of flashes but quite different actual codes). I doubt it is the oxygen sensor, without a code for that.
Roland
Jack writes on 2009-04-22 01:48:20
The code 23 was got by turning ignition on off on off on off on off and on...then it pauses, then blink, blink, pause, then blink, blink, blink..long pause then blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, pause, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink ((55) end of transmitting.
I put a new battery in the car in december so battery was un-hooked for about a hour, I suspect plenty of time to re-set the codes.
After my last post to you, I went and checked the codes, and above was what it read out.
The harness and the sensor you asked about was replaced in July of 2008.
I just drove it to Kentucky over the weekend, on the way up, it hesitated 2 or 3 times, on the way back from kentucky, it was raining, and it did not hesitate once. Although it just doesn't seem to have the get up and go it had when I first purchased the car.
Gas mileage was 22 MPG on the way up to KY. and 21.6 on the way home!
Hi Jack,
If we assume the 23 code is correct, then one has to check out the throttle body temp sensor to see whether it is off-value or has some melted insulation on its wiring harness that is shorting it out. Check the dealer service order to see whether that sensor and harness was or wasn't one that was replaced. The wires from the sensor's harness plug are routed to the logic module in the cabin on the right side cowl (by the passengers right foot), and the black/red wire goes to pin 25 of the black plug while the black/light blue wire goes to pin 25 of the natural color 25-pin plug at the logic module. The sensor should read 10k-14k ohms when cold and about 1k ohms when fully warmed up as measured across the terminals of sensor (or alternatively between the separate pin #25's of the 2 plugs at the logic module, when both are unplugged). So that measurement would be the first order of business to dealing with this hesitation.
Roland
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Hello sir, well I got rid of the hesitation. $55 in parts and labor at a local mechanic. It was the distributor cap and a burnt rotor.
I had paid at the beginning of this $100 to the Chrysler Dealership for a "complete" tune-up. They had told me they had checked everything and it didn't need a thing. 10 months later and $800 to the same dealership, I still had the problem...."hesitation"!!
Now I finally take it to a local mechanic down the street from me, and he fixed my problem for $55. "Unbelieveable"!!
I had told my new mechanic about the throttle body temp sensor, and had showed him the work order from the dealership. He said according to the work order it was replaced along with the wiring harness. but he started with the distibutor first and after seeing the rotor and replacing it, he thought it might take care of my problem.
Which it did.
He told me to drive it for awhile, and then bring it back down to him, and he would trace the wires back to the logic module to make sure they are in good order.
Thank you for everything and your time!
AnswerHi Jack,
Thanks for the report of your success. It brings home the point of not being seduced by the bells and whistles. There are lots of parts that are not monitored by the computer which we overlook at our peril. Because I have the same engine I will be sure to keep this experience in my memory bank.
Roland
