QuestionQUESTION: Hi Jon,
I have a problem with my zx2r, it starts, idle and revs up fine (a little rough) in neutral.. however when I put it in 1st gear to take off and release the clutch ..the engine cuts off.This is done with the kick stand up... so engine should not cut off....
On the other hand I can see the kick stand switch wires have been cut and grounded by the previous owner ... so technically it should always thinks that the kick stand is up... Could this be the issue? The wires being cut causing some kind of electrical problem? If not what would you suggest for me to look at? condition of junction box? fuses? reconnect the kick stand switch?? I am running out of ideas...
Thanks for your help
Cheers
ANSWER: Ok well, First of all, the reference to the kick stand switch, is this the first time the fault has shown up, I mean, has the kick stand switch wires always been cut and earthed since you got the bike, if so, it is unlikely that anything has changed there, we tend to see something amiss, like the grounded wires, and then try to fit the problem to it, if you see what I mean, done it myself sometimes. Unless the wiring has been interfered with recently there, it is probably ok, is it still secure for instance. Actually, most bikes don't even start in neutral if the switch is activated. When you say it cuts out, do you find it to be a sudden stop, as if a switch has been flicked off, or maybe slightly progressive, like a faltering then it stops, you know, the engine kinda grumbles a bit, than splutters to a stop. If that is the case I would be certainly looking for something in the ignition system that is failing when a load is applied. You said it is running a bit rough even in neutral, well that could indicate something not quite right, like an incomplete combustion, or occasional misfire, not rhythmic, just totally intermittent. when you pop it into first gear, the load of the bike is taken up as the clutch is released, and one of your components, most likely a coil is failing completely, which is then causing the stall / stop. Of course when back in neutral, no load, then it will work, a bit, but as said before not well, just well enough to start though. You can test the coils by using a test meter, and the primary and secondary circuits are measured for resistance, in ohms, refer to the specs in the manual, and check if they are OK, if so, I would still be looking in the ignition areas, check out the HT leads for instance for break down, old hard ones don't work too well, resistance is greater, also the plug caps, or boot, have a look for cracks, or if possible tracking lines, thin grey spidery trails, finally the cdi unit it may be playing up, although they are difficult to check, most are sealed, and most manuals subsequently don't carry specs for cdi units, but to be honest they are pretty robust, and last well, if in doubt try to find a known good one and swap out to test. Although i would guess you won't need to go that far into the ignition system to identify the fault. As a final parting shot, has anything been changed recently, or worked on, removed to clean etc. Stating the obvious, but if that is the case, that is where the problem will lie, well, almost definitely.
But I guess you would have mentioned that, so, if it is just a new occurrence for you, check out the ignition route as aforementioned,
food for thought anyway!
JonO
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Hi Jon,
Thx for the help...
by the way... this happened once or twice or so.. but it's much worser now.. I can't really go for a ride nemore.. also it doesn't struggle before it stops... it cuts off like flick of a switch... feels like the kills switch has been flicked.. so i doubt it's an ignition problem.. as it revs up fine when load is given in neutral..
What is a CDI unit?.. is that the junction box located near the battery(fuse box)??... or I noticed there's another eletrical box... which I have not attempted to open yet...
I wanted to know the problem first b4 jumping to a mech.. as they are very expenseive here :-( ...
Thanks
AnswerHey there OC Ok thanks for the remail, well, OK it's been happening a bit before, but it's gotten worse as time goes by, I was thinking about the ignition side of things, as it does still sound like a sudden spark failure, which would really just stop the bike like you had turned the ignition off when riding along, I guess the progressive stop, spluttering rules out the scenario of intermittent sparking initially before the spark fails altogether, it's like running at full spark quota then, pow, zero spark, even though ignition is on, I wonder, if that happens, if you stop then shift to neutral, will it start up immediately, or after a couple or more tries.? Like a component warming up, then failing, then not working until cooled a bit, and the connection, being whole again, know what I mean, even something like a cracked solder joint, which can't be seen, as it may well be internal, heats up, expands, crack widens, component fails, cools down, then works again? Sounds far fetched, lol but ,it happens. In fact I recently saw or read an article when someone was talking about a particular bike that was prone to troubles with the cdi unit, he actually cut it open, it is a sealed unit, not meant to be opened!, but he went on to say after resoldering all the connections in there it worked great, but of course I can't say for sure that this would work here.By the way, I might not have been clear in the load description it will rev in neutral probably quite happily, sure, if there is an issue with the insulation, and the amps increase, it may cause a misfire, but here, as you say it is a total switch off. with the engine running, and you pull clutch in and release the clutch lever til it "bites" and the torque power starts to move the bike forward, and you of course, that is the point of load being applied, as soon as you throttle and let the clutch is let out fully, that is then fully loading the ignition system, well, that is what i meant anyway! sorry.
Ok and then at that point as you pull away, acceleratig, i take it that then or even before you get going at all, and the clutch is taking up the weight, that is when the engine cuts out. So, in my line of thinking, that is the point the component in question is suddenly failing, and then no spark is going to the plug at all. Which I would hazard a guess at coils, or cdi unit. I haven't worked on your bike, theres a huge amount of bikes out there, I am wondering, there will be multi coils, but quite possible only one cdi box to serve all coils, what I mean is if it is in this area, if a coil was to fail, the others would still work, I think so anyway, but if the cdi quits, then that is feeding everything, then the engine would stop altogether. Oh yeah, I think the cdi box, the Capacitor Discharge ignition box is usually housed out of the elements, and it will have wiring running to the coil, and the stators on the flywheel, they are also known as ignitors. Here is a useful site for exploded diagrams of most bikes, http://www.cmsnl.com/kawasaki-motorcycle_model11372/ and you will prob find yours there. also as another great site, check out this link http://www.dansmc.com/cdiignition.htm
This info is brilliant, and covers it all in great depth.
I'm pretty sure it isn't going to be a junction box, or fuse box issue, the cdi unit might be mounted near them, but quite often they are slotted into a rubber mount, which is then attached to the frame, usually under the tank, or under the seat amongst all the other electrical stuff. BTW when you do experience this cut out, does the ignition lights all go out as well? or do they come on, the oil light etc. It's not something incredibly simple like a loose wire somewhere that is disturbed when gear is engaged, or the lever is moved, or even by the increase in vibration and a loose battery terminal? breaking the main circuit, only to settle back again when the bike comes to a stop? It's difficult not being there, know what i mean!! lol, I have to grasp at straws, I mean if all lights quit at the same time at the same time of the stall, then sure, it is moving away from any ignition suspicion. Have a think about it, check the links I have put in here, I think that if the lights are on when the engine quits, and it isn't a main circuit break, it is pointing to that cdi or ignitor unit, they do fail although they tend to be robust, and another point about them is they either work or they don't at all, you will have a spark or nothing, if it flickering between these two options, then it will do exactly what your bike is doing. Maybe you get a used one from same model that is ok to try, they ccan be expensive you see, and as I mentioned before, they are difficult to check, most manuals say if all other components check out, then it is the cdi box, process of elimination and all that.
I'm trying to be helpful here OC believe me, I wish I could just categorically say, it is that, and all would be straightforward, but then elecricals and electronics are never straightforward!! lol
As an add on Steve, still pondering here. Do you see any other safety switches apart from the kick stand, I believe that some bikes will have other safety kill switches on perhaps the brake, or more pertinent here, the clutch. If there is a switch there and it is defective it could be tripping out at the wrong time.
JonO
