QuestionDear Dave,
I'm overwhelmed by your answer. Thanks! Sorry for the late reply. I was in the country for a few days. OK, I put the brakes on this one. After going back to eBay, it seems there are other ones for sale from roughly the same period. So, my question becomes...are there particularly GOOD years to look for? I'd like to keep to around 15K. There's no great rush. Happy thanksgiving. Tony
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Hi Dave,
I'm no genius when it comes to cars, and am trying to convince myself that buying a 1976 911S with one owner and 67K original miles ain't a terrible idea. Can you give me some idea of what to look out for, and good questions to ask? Thanks a lot. Tony
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Hi Tony,
There are quite a few questions I'd have...and I'm no genius either. The KEY questions are:
1. How much?
2. What are you going to do with it?
a. Put it in the air tight container cause it's the last one in this condition?
b. Put it on a trailer and take it around to Porsche Shows cause its the best race car example existing?
c. Put it in your garage with the other ten vintage classics you don't drive because the insurance would kill you?
d. Drive it daily?
e. Fix the things wrong with it and then drive it daily?
f. Restore the rusty wreck and then drive it?
g. Restore the rusty wreck and then park it cause you've invested too much to drive it?
Write back to me...this should be fun sorting out the alternatives.
Dave
Hi Dave,
Here's the link for the beauty. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4591443324&
Can you open it?
I live in downtown DC, and make my way around on bicycle. I haven't owned a car in 8 years, but have had numerous german motorcycles. It would be my only car, but I don't foresee using it for commuting, etc.
Looking forward to your thoughts! Many thanks.
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++++++++++++++++Follow-up 11-21+++++++++++
Tony...yikes...you didn't tell me time was of the essence. Here's what I won't be able to help you with:
I can't (won't really) peg the dollar value of a car I am not there to touch and feel. (PS. I've never been in DC this time of year, actually never) The "market" value for a '76 is dependent on everything else than the Kelley Blue Book. You're going to have to do what Kelley does. Collect the last 100 sales of the same car and adjust each sales price upward or downward reflecting the extra value for good things and the negative value for the bad things. Don't try to get away easy with the asking prices. Actual selling prices only. Once having done that you'll be able to see what an average '76 is selling for. All you have to do then is figure out whether your metallic green one is average...and if it's better WHY? And if it's better HOW MUCH is that betterness worth?
Here's what you might consider doing (to start):
1. Verify the VIN number and prove the engine is the original based on the VIN/engine number combination. See porsche owner forums.
2. Find that original owner!
a. get every one of his maintenance receipts. If he says he has none, run.
Have him inspect the car tomorrow.
b.1. have the original owner describe how the car looked when he sold it to your dealer
b.2. if necessary, pay the original owner $150 to describe how the car looked when he sold it to your dealer
b.3. have him tell you what he sold $$ the car for
3. Evaluate whether the car is "perfect" from a maintenance standpoint
a. It is fantastic that the car has only 65,000 miles...but that also means it was driven only 2,000 miles per year. Assuming the car was not actually started and driven 7 miles per day, there probably were periods of hibernation...that's a bad thing from a maintenance standpoint. I'm not kidding...if the car was driven 7 miles per day WE would be very happy. Anything that deviates from this average is a probable negative.
4. I did some research and found the '76 with the 2.7 liter engine has some particularly worrisome engine maintenance issues...described as usually showing up after 35,000 miles and before 60,000 miles. Valve guides.
a. Will the dealer allow your mechanic to inspect the car? $150, especially a compression test. Do not buy a Porsche that'll need an engine rebuild "soon"...or "one of these days".
Re the $150...I'd pay more if the mechanic was a Porsche expert. Here's the only guy I ever knew like that: Denny owned an independent Porsche repair shop and he acted like the service writer. He drove every Porsche arriving for service and he drove every car after it was repaired. As far as I'm concerned his "butt" and his hands were priceless. So he "felt" how it was to drive every Porsche model for 20 years.
5. You must be the smartest guy. In the '76 model year the Porsche factory made the hugest, biggest, change ever to their cars: most of the steel on the car was changed to galvanized and the lowermost parts were undercoated. Porsches prior to '76 can't stand the snow so much they rust away. The '76's might be worrisome from a rust standpoint too...but you can check it out.
5a. Rub your hand on the rubber horizontal spacer between the front of the car and the front bumper. That rubber piece is affixed to the bumper by being molded to a piece of rustable steel. If you feel pimples under that rubber, run.
6. I'd be researching if the green was an original color. I just don't remember that well at the moment. For the money, for a car in your area, I would not buy it unless a reputable body shop put the car on a hoist and told you what they saw. Another $100-150.
Sorry, I'm a bit tired of typing, but I do have more ideas.
In the meantime, answer this: what attracts you to the '76 911 and are there any others you'd consider? For the 'average" Porsche buyer the '76 911 is not usually the first choice. What new trend are you thinking of starting?
Dave
Answer++++++++++Follow-up 11-23
Thanks Tony...when people say they're overwhelmed by my responses it usually means I've gone waaaay overboard and continued to type right past the interest level of the reader. But...for the time bring I'll still take it as a compliment.
You know...I didn't mean to stop you from buying the green one, its just that from California where I sit, that engine compartment wasn't pristine like I would have expected from a car with that low mileage and commanding that high a price.
Anyway, consider this:
Unless you're buying the car to work on it as a project or for any other collectability reason stay away from any 911 before '76. Great cars to play with, but it's the potential rust problem. For '76 and after there are a lot of great choices...in fact you really can't go too far wrong with this notion:
What you're looking at is the same basic wonderfully-designed car anywhere from '76 into the early '90's...except that the newer you get the more refinements you get. So rather than changing models every couple years the engineers could concentrate on improving what was already there. So I would expect to see better braking on a 90 than an 85 and the 85 would be better than the 76. But the '76 had great brakes to start with so its the refinements that make each new year a little better.
In this way, the "EXPERTS", and in this rare case I agree with them...say to buy as new a 911 as your pocketbook can afford.
The one exception might be unless you have a particularly "collectible" one in mind...like a 930 Turbo of the late 70's. I'll assume for the moment your year range will be '76 through the mid-'80's. For my money I think you'd be very happy with the "SC" models from '78 on. The 3 liter engine is almost indestructable and it's really better than the engines that came before. All you have to do then is decide if you like the body style.
The weak point of these cars...just about the only weak point was the clutch. But by now everyone who has one will have accumulated enough miles to have the original clutch blow up and then upgrade to the better and more reliable clutch.
I wouldn't mind paying a premium price as long as I could be certain of a car's maintenance record. You probably noticed I focus a lot on maintenance records. I also focus on what the owner says and how he says it. If someone says I really baby this car and I ALWAYS change the oil at 3,000 miles that is a heck of a good start. Of course, the car better look like it's been babied and the records should show a comprehensive preventative maintenance program. There's a huge difference between service records that talk about "routine service at XXXX miles" rather than "owner reports car broke down and won't start". You should be able to find that conscientious owner and that babied car. Unlike the 914's an 924's and 944's, which were Porsche's attempts at "entry-level" cars...the 911 owner usually paid top dollar to get into the car and considered it an investment rather than a consumable.
One last rust comment and then I'll let you ponder all this. If you are looking on ebay...and I think that's a fine idea...I think your focus should be on cars who have lived their whole lives in California, Arizona, New Mexico. The post-76 cars are hugely better when it comes to rust resistance, but if the '76+ car has been routinely exposed to snow and salt and slush and all that other stuff there is just a much higher probability of rust. Having said that I'll bet there is a cream-puff car in Maryland right now that actually has been babied and has never been driven in the rain. Yep, I'd absolutely consider it. But that car, just because of its environment, would get a very thorough look-see up on a hoist. Very thorough.
I would be happy to assist you any way I can. Other people will have their own ideas about what's important so I wouldn't hesitate seeking out other guidance. But if you see a car that's of interest and want to kick its tires with me I'm here. When that time comes go ahead and use my e-mail address...it'll be a bit easier than the all-experts process.
Can you tell this is one of my favorite subjects? I know...overwhelming.
Dave
daves356@yahoo.com
PS. You have a happy Thanksgiving too. I'm going out now to prep my barbeque...I do our traditional turkey that way. My wife thinks I'm a hero.
