QuestionQUESTION: I've got a 2003 eclipse with a Infinity System> I replaced the OEM player with a Pioneer DEH-3000IB. Now just trying to find out the wattage of the OEM Infinity amp I have>> What will be the best, integrate it or bypass it?? I'm thinking of replacing the OEM speakers too that's why I want to know the wattage, how high can I go>> Thanx a bunch if you can help, no one so far could do it>>
ANSWER: Hi, Shehan. Thank you for the question. I apologize for the delay in answering.
Believe it or not, you can do either one quite simply and cheaply.
I'll get the parts out of the way first... If you want to integrate, you can use this:
http://www.parts-express.com//pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=265-846&CFID=15
If you would like to bypass, use this:
http://www.autotoys.com/x/product.php?productid=5448
But to answer your questions, you would be better off using the Pioneer's on board MOSFET amplifier to run aftermarket speakers. Not only is the connectivity between the new HU and stock amp difficult to reproduce, but you are going to run into problems with signal faults, loud feedback (about 3 out of 4 times) and losing your dash speakers. The wattage for the Infinity amp in the Eclipse is rated at 15-20W RMS per channel and the speakers run at 2-ohms with separate channels at the amp. Replacing the speakers will in fact yield less power from the stock amp, but also yield almost no gain (in fact, a possible loss) of signal integrity vs power ratio. If you do end up having a hard time bypassing, you could always run new speaker wires through the car since it is quite easy to work on.
One more thing I want to throw out there is about your question "how high can I go". It's a big misconception that low power on a high end speaker will blow it due to the coil overheating from lack of movement. This is 100% not true. You can use ANY speaker you would like on your new setup and it will play just fine whether you integrate or bypass. (If you would like a more detailed description of this. please follow-up.) Please remember to always send a clean signal to your equipment. Sending dirty (clipped) signals will blow speakers at less than 1/2 RMS ratings!
So my overall answer is bypass. If you get info from others to integrate, yes it can be done as I stated above, but it will only hurt you in the final outcome (even unnoticeably to the ear if all goes well).
If you would like more specific information on anything, please let me know.
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QUESTION: Actually I already integrated the amp but as u say if I can get a better quality by bypassing the amp I'm ready to do it. I also have tweeters and center speaker in the car (just saw yesterday that it was already busted), so if I bypass the amp how can I use them?? Will I have to get component speakers??
ANSWER: If you've already integrated, then congrats! Most people can't actually get it right or the stock amp gives them problems.
I personally avoid stock amps due to their low ratings and odd specs, wiring aside. They aren't designed for aftermarket application, but they CAN be used.
Now we run into another little problem. I'm pretty sure you have the 6 speaker system by now, but you say a center channel also? You have two options. Unfortunately, as we all know, car audio is a lot of work. =]
1. Stick with stock speakers, bypass the amp to run them directly from the head unit. Since the stock speakers are 2-ohms each, you can run one door and one dash speaker in series to run them both on one head unit channel. This will yield a 4-ohm load to the HU which is the stable configuration. (This is assuming the dash speakers aren't dry rotted also). You will also have to do this with your rear speakers. You lose the balance between them, but you'll have your fader. You will be getting full power from the head unit this way, and although you may see a slight difference in power output, you will see a much better difference in your clarity (which in my opinion is better than just being loud). NOTE: If you replace the stock speakers, unless you get 2-ohm coils, this won't work.
2. Since the designers of cars aren't into car audio like we are, they don't know much about imaging. To be honest, the stock dash speakers don't really do much for us other than make the ambient volume a bit louder. Your option here would be to replace the four speakers (front and rear) and ditch the dash speakers. With this, you would either run power off of the head unit or buy a 4-channel amp to run them. You will most likely notice no difference with or without dash running.
Unfortunately, that center channel really throws you for a loop since there aren't many applications where there's a designated channel for it. You could either go the class AB 5-channel route (if you buy aftermarket), or get a head unit with a center channel built in. Many Eclipse and Alpine units have this channel, but the Pioneer does not.
I know this may not be answers you want to hear, but all of the advice I give is running equipment properly. You could very well make it work by just hooking them up in parallel, but you'd be running improper ohm loads.
I can help you in any way you need it. Let me know if you need any specific information, or if you'd like to know WHY things are done this way.
One last note...if you are attempting a competition SQ install, then there are many more things you need to consider. Let me know if this is the case.
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QUESTION: Thanx again for answering my question soon>>
Not thinking about a competition sq install cause I guess it'll cost a lot>> Trying to get some quality sound for a affordable budget>> So was thinking to add things step by step every month>> I was thinking to upgrade just the speakers now but add a sub woofer (mean 2 12" hopefully) later on. SO basically want to do the whole system with high quality sounds but step by step 2-3 months. So if you can help me with that it'll be really great.
I can live without the dash speaker, I already pulled it out, saw it was busted, due to hot texas sun I guess. So without that the car has 4 speakers and 2 tweeters in doors. And I'm thinking to replace all the speakers, probably with 4 ohms I guess. And also bypass the amp cause I want to get the best I can. So how can I use the tweeters if I connect the speakers directly to the HU?? That's when the component speakers came to my mind, I really don't know what it does, so if you can explain the the real difference that'll be great too. And what is a MOFSET?? IS the 50Wx4 rating RMS? Do u think adding a 4 way amp will make a big difference?
I'm sorry, I'm kindda new to all these, I have played with speakers and stock systems, but never has gone that far like installing a nice aftermarket system. Really appreciate your time>>
AnswerDon't be sorry. We've all started knowing very little including myself, and I'm glad to share what I've learned with fellow enthusiasts. =]
WARNING: This is a long-winded answer!
I'll have you know that upgrading your stock speakers to almost any aftermarket brand makes a HUGE difference in sound. Once you become attuned to new speakers' sound, you'll start to understand your favorite response, learn more about Theile-Small parameters of speakers, and buy accordingly. It's a lot to learn, but if you truly love your music like I do, then you'll have lots of fun getting there.
Yes, I figured those dash speakers took a beating. It seems like no matter what region you're in, they rot in the sun. It's not too bad though since they really don't do much.
Now, I'll answer your questions in order.
What's the difference between a component and a coaxial speaker?
A component consists of a woofer, a tweeter, and a crossover. The tweeter takes care of the high end reproduction and the woofer takes care of the midrange frequencies that a subwoofer and tweeter cannot. Setting up enough components will yield a very strong "bass" sound while the doors are closed. Almost like you have a system already! But what is a crossover?
A crossover uses capacitors and inductors (either in parallel, series, or combinations) to manipulate which frequencies go to their respective drivers. A capacitor stores voltage blocking low end frequencies and letting high frequencies pass. An inductor stores current which does the exact opposite of the capacitor. It lets lower frequencies pass and filters the higher end.
The crossover also manipulates the load seen by the amp. While tweeters and woofers are both 4-ohm coil configurations, due to the systematic filtration, the amp will only see a 4-ohm load.
The only problem with using components is phase shifts. The voltage and current become out of phase causing timing issues. Even order crossovers have 180 degrees phase shift (which means the speakers are literally working against eachother if wired correctly) or 0 degrees (which means they are moving the same direction at the same time). SQ installers use these tactics, including odd order crossovers and the speed of sound to place their speakers in such a way that all of the reproduction meets up at the RTA at the exact same time... Very expensive and difficult to get this right. ;) (This is something you won't have to worry about though.)
A coaxial speaker works almost exactly the same, except the woofer and tweeter share an axis. If you look on the motor structure of a coaxial speaker, sometimes you'll find a capacitor. This is there to protect the tweeter in the same way the crossover does. The sound is never out of phase, but the power handling is lower. These are pretty simple.
What is a MOSFET?
I do have the answer to this, but it is very hard to explain simply. Look up how transistors work, then look up how a MOSFET works as an electrical component. Otherwise this will be like 20 pages long. =] It's used in many more places than car audio. They are basically the way amplifiers "amplify" the applied signal. It stands for Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor. Majority of amps nowadays use FETs or MOSFETs on their boards, and you can pull these off and use different FETs with different specs to increase voltage stability or ampacity of the board. Some high end competitors do this, but it's illegal in dBDrag competitions.
Is the 50Wx4 rating RMS?
Unfortunately, no. Ratings are better now that CEA stepped in and set regulations, but the rules can still be bent. 50x4 will never happen on head units, but you truly only need 10W to amplify a signal. The other remaining wattage is used to physically move the driver with the coil against the magnet. Most head units have 10-20W RMS output based on our clamps. BUT!!! Due to different preout voltages, these ratings do change.
Do you think adding a 4-channel will make a difference?
Absolutely. If you've never heard a 4-channel amp in your car, you will be overwhelmed with happiness when you hear it with one.
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So here's the deal. Bypass the stock amp, buy a 4-channel amp, buy a nice speaker set for the rears, and buy a component set for the fronts. It will be the best car audio purchase you've ever made.
Hopefully this helps!
