Question
Passenger window switc
QUESTION: Last year I bought 2004 Sebring LXi. So far so good, but... in the last 3-4 months occasionally I couldn't open the passenger window from the Master switch, if there is nobody in that seat. It worked when a person is in the seat. So I assumed that there might be a sensor, which responds only when there is a person there (not very smart though...). Fine.
Yesterday it happened again. So I tried the switch from the passenger side. It opened the window, but it couldn't close it back. Same from the Master Switch. Now the window is half open. The other 3 windows are working fine.
No noise when it moves down (so the regulator should be OK).
Checked the fuses - all are OK.
I opened the passenger door trim, checked the switch itself - is shows continuity to one of the cables going to the motor, but not to the other. Assuming that the 2 neighbor cables should correspond to Up and Down. There are 2 groups: 3 and 2, totaling 5 in the passenger door.
Tried to switch the cables and make the window to close with Open-command --> no result.
What options I have to close the window?
Is it the motor... running only in one direction ?
How can I check the passenger Switch? Is it possible tat the Master Switch is faulty?
What should I do to disconnect the motor and remove/ replace it, if needed?
PS: there is a strange noise when I put the ignition in ON position, which I didn't hear before. Something like ssszzzzdt, very low volume, lasting 1-2 seconds, coming from the control panel direction. No idea if this is Normal or connected to the main issue.
ANSWER: Hi Mitko,
The starting point for diagnosis is at the motor (or the wires to that motor from the switch). Both ends of those wires from the switch to the motor, tested individually (with the plug removed from the motor) should show continuity, and if either is not continuous then the motor would not work in either direction. Once you find the wires are each continuous:
If you put your voltmeter across those wires (one is violet, one is brown) you should get 12V when you try the switch, but the polarity of the voltage will switch between the 'up' and 'down' request. If it does, then the motor is not working in the up direction. If the polarity doesn't reverse then the wiring/switches are the issue.
If you aren't getting reversed polarity at pins 1 and 5 of the passenger switch, then do the same measurement on pins 2 and 4 of the passenger switch (violet/white, brown/white wires) but this time use the driver switch to see if it causes reversing polarity. It if does, then passenger switch is faulty. If it doesn't then the driver switch is faulty.
Let me know what you find.
Roland
PS Sorry for the delay but I just found your quetion in the 'pool' to which it had been referred. Please 'rate' my answer and where you see the question about 'volunteer of the month' please consider a 'yes' answer. Thanks
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
Passanger Window switc
QUESTION: Hi Roland,
Thanks for the reply.
I can’t remove the plug from the motor, no matter how hard I try, so having in mind your advice that “if either (of the wires) is not continuous then the motor would not work in either direction” and knowing that motor is working down, I will assume that the both wires (brown and violet) are continuous.
I have attached a revised picture of the plug, wires and the switch for that passenger window and the continuity as I have measured it with the switch out.
With the ignition in ON position and switch OFF there is 11.84 V between the Yellow and brown/white wires (5-4), having the Red connector attached to the Yellow. Might be a short...?
Now, moving to step 2: Measure the exit from the switch. For doing this I attached the wires directly to the switch, without the brown and violet.
In position Down – yeah, there is 12.04V, in position Up ...0V. So here it is.
To make sure that this is the faulty switch, I took the switch from the rear door and tested it... no change: Down is fine, Up – nothing.
Double checked the ‘faulty’ switch at the rear door – it works fine. Nice. So the passenger switch is OK.
Step 3: check if window will open only with 2,3 and 5 connected to the switch. No, it doesn’t move at all.
Step 4:knowing that there is a possible short between 5 and 4, reverse the position of 2 and 3. Connecting all the wires. Command Down --> window is moving Up. YEAH!
Conclusion: the signal for closing the window is coming from 2 wires: 5 for voltage direction and 1 or 4 for... something else. Wires 2 and 3 are transporting the signal to the motor.
Here is my question to you Roland: is the Master switch the reason for that ‘short’ between 5 and 4 (yellow and brown/white) or its the conduit? How can I check that?
Thank you very much for your help, Roland.
ANSWER: Hi Mitko,
This is strange because the wiring diagrams I am working from show a different array of wiring assignments to the passenger swtich as compared to your photo. I am working with a printed copy of the '03 wiring diagram which I had assumed applicable to your '04, but I do have the '04 on a CD which I will look at now.
While I do that: Because you have proven that the switch is good, I suspect then that the problem is at the master switch. Looking at the brown/white wire (at the passenger switch where that comes from the master switch) that wire should show it to be continuous to ground when the master is in neutral position, same with the violet/white wire. Check those both to be sure.
If that is the case, then when try 'up' at the master: the brown/white should show 12V to ground, and when you try 'down': the violet/white should show 12v. And when I say 'to ground' I mean attach the - lead of your voltmeter to a shiny surface of the chassis, such as the door hinge hardware. If that is not the case, then you have dirty switch contacts in the driver door switch, or failed contacts in the driver switch, or a broken wire (whichever one doesn't show 12v when it should) between the driver and the passenger switch. You could spray some electrical contact cleaner from an electronics supply store inside the master switch through a hole or crack to try and clean up the contacts inside.
Let me know what you learn and will let you know what I learn from the '04 CD manual.
Roland
PS Please use the 'rate' button to rate all of my answers to you.
PPS: I just looked at the CD and the diagrams are identical. For example the yellow wire is supposed to be on pin 6 of the passenger switch, and pin 3 is not used at all. I don't understand what is going here! The wires to the motor are supposed to be on pins 1 and 5, and the brown/white and violet/white wires are supposed to be on pins 4 and 2 of the switch.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Hi Roland,
Thank you for the response.
I assumed that you are looking at a different diagram, after you advised about brown/white and violet/white wires and then referred to them as to be on pins 4 and 2. It might be because of the 2 editions of Sebring in 2004: 1-st half is LXi, 2-nd half of the year is Limited, might be some confusion when speaking generally about Sebring 2004... no idea.
Here is the result of my latest tests:
1. brown/white = Yes, violet/white = No : Continuous to ground with switch in neutral.
2. brown/white = 11.92V, violet/white = 0.0V response to Up/Down from the master:
Yellow is 11.92V in all positions of the switch.
Isn’t that weird? And the working path is Down..., but the response is to Up?
What next? Electrical contact cleaner…
AnswerHi Mitko,
The fact that you don't get violet/white being continuous to ground, and you don't get 11.92 in either up or down on that wire means that either the connection from the master to the local switch is 'open' or the master switch is faulty for that wire's contact. If what you listed in your question were actually measured at the master switch, then it does say that there is a bad internal contact for that wire in the master switch. So try spray some electrical contact cleaner through a crack or hole in the master to see if you can get voltage on the violet/white when you try the the down (or the up, it seem like the drawing is reversed as to up v. down!). It has to show 12 one way of the other, and the brown/white has to show 12 in the opposite request direction for the window to go up and down. The fact though that it also doesn't show continuity to ground in the neutral position means the contact tip must by badly oxidized or broken off inside the master switch. But give it a try with the cleaner solution.
Roland
