QuestionQUESTION: Hello again Ronald!
Here I am again, asking you - the expert some more questions.
I've fixed my past distributor problem by rebuilding it, I got my hands on the parts and even have some spare ones left.
But now i've started to have idling problems. I've read some of your past posts and tested out the TPS wire voltages. I'd like to share my results:
Orange/Dark blue reads .79 volts
Violet/White = 5v
Black/Light Blue has current to the 43 pin
Error codes
P0113
P0123
P1295
Keep in mind I have a slight vacuum leak in the EGR Pipe that goes into the intake manifold because the gasket is just slighty damaged.
How ever let me give you a rundown of frequent problems:
Frequently the engine starts but turns off - the throttle appears to be completely shut off because it lets no air in, i've tested this)
When driving for some time on the road, the idle speed stays at between 2K-3K RPMs and will go back to normal after a few minutes of remaining idle.
This is all I have for you now. I'll be doing some tests like you posted on this article:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Chrysler-Repair-807/99-chrysler-sebring-lxi.htm
Any input is appreciated.
-Pete
ANSWER: Hi Pete,
The three codes suggest a problem with the 5V supply being intermittent or shorted intermittently. That supply is needed by both the TPS and the IAT sensors. That comes from pin 61 at the pcm. Perhaps the harness to either of those or the a/c pressure sensor which also relies on that 5V supply has some melted insulation and is shorting to a higher voltage wire or to ground or is opening. Those harness are located partially in very hot engine compartment areas so I would suggest close inspection for visual signs of any melting. And measuring continuity while shaking the harness would possibly show you an intermittent 'open'. Or disconnecting the pcm plug and then checking for a short from the sensor end of the wire to ground while shaking the harness might reveal the cause.
Also keep in mind that the egr may be causing unpredictable feedback effects on the stability of the idle speed. The pcm will make compensation for a leak by increaing the pulse width of the injectors when it gets 'word' of a too lean condition from the oxygen sensor. I would fix that leak before doing anything else so as to get that variable out of the picture.
About the throttle shutting off all the air, do you mean the main throttle valve or the idle air side passageway? The butterfly will appear closed but the idle air side passageway is another source of idle air.
By the way, have you tried cleaning the throttle body throat, the idle air passageway and both side of the throttle plate itself? If those are cruddy you can also get some strange sort of idling.
Those would be my inputs at this point. Please let me know if any bear fruit. And thank you so much for the rate/nomination and kind encouragement. It helps to feel appreciated!
Roland
PS Those tests you referenced appear to have been posted by Kevin from the digital Chrysler shop manual. I don't have access to those specific texts.
PPS Good going on the distributor rebuild. Where were you able to get the parts? I have been under the impression that if it fails there are no parts and you have to buy a rebuilt.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Hi Ronald,
Its been a week almost since you replied and I haven't been able to take a look at my car idling problem because of the excess work.
Yesterday I took out the EGR valve on my car and gave it a real good clean both outside and inside. I tested it and it seems fine, I lubricated it a bit to try and smooth it out a little bit more and I put it back. The air leak I had on the EGR pipe got fixed and that seemed to do away with all my computer codes. No more TPS or 5v errors for some reason. Weird?
At any rate, the car is still idling, i've been looking at your other answers and i'll try and clean the throttle body like you said while i'm at it.
As for my distributor rebuild, I got the parts from some company in asia. They made me buy a few of them because they only do wholesale. I got 4 sensors, 4 coils, 4 rotors and 4 caps. So I might as well bought the o-ring, bearing and retainer and rebuilt the entire thing.
I still have some parts incase you know of someone who might want them.
Anyway thanks for your help, if you have any other suggestions to my problem let me know. I'm still doubtful about the TPS but i'll leave it for last.
-Pete
ANSWER: Hi Pete,
Thanks for the update. Good luck on the rest of the idling issue and please let me know if any specific action seemed to help. If you can describe the idle issue, and any other remaining engine performance issue I may have an idea.
On the distributor rebuild, I do regularly get 2.5 V-6 owners who are faced with buying the rebuilt at what seem to be a high price. So I will try to let you know of any new prospects. When you write back let me know approximately how much it cost for the 4 or each that you bought and about how much you would sell 1 of each for.
Roland
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Hello Ronald.
Cleaning the EGR valve helped alot. Though the problem's arent gone, they have reduced significantly. The engine still shuts off sometimes at startup but a bit less frequently. The engine still idle's fast around 2-2.5K RPMs down from 3-3.5.
The other issue it has is when driving around 40-50MPH. I can feel these odd engine like bumps that happen around 1-2 times per second, it feels like a momentary stall for just a fraction of a second. Those only happen around that speed though.
One thing i'm remembering might have caused this is that about three weeks ago, just a few days after repairing my distributor I ran out of gas! I was so busy on the phone I forgot to make a stop by the station, when I finally got some gas and fueled it some of the rain water got in the tank and since then i've had these idling issues. At first I thought i had some water in the gas tank but its been weeks now. I don't know if that could also be a source of the problem.
If you have some input i'd appreciate it.
On the distributor - It is MUCH MORE cheaper to rebuild the distributor with these parts than to buy it rebuilt. It's also very easy to rebuild. The cost of the coil is $69, the cost of the sensor is $79. The cost of the rotor is $10 though you can just get it at Autozone for $15. The price of the cap is $25.
All together they add up to about $188 but i've put together a "Rebuilt kit" i've been selling for $159 that includes all those parts plus the retainer, bearing and o-ring. Everything you need to give that sucker another 5+ years worth of life. Compare that to $250 for a refurb one.
And by the way, I can also get NEW distributors for $240.
If you have anyone that might want them let me know. I've already ran out of parts, so i'm thinking of ordering some more and turn this into a side business for me. Maybe you know of some other hard to find ignition parts from other models I might find useful for doing business?
Anyway this is getting too long. Thanks for your time, as always you're awesome!
-Pete
AnswerHi Pete,
On the residual idle problem, have you tested the seams on the intake manifold for a possible leak of air? The engine control system will self-adjust via the oxygen sensors for such a leak, and it is almost like stepping on the throttle a bit when you have such a leak. While idling try using very short/light squirts of starter fluid at various locations around the manifold and listen for any engine rpm changes. If you find a spot that would be where a leak might be present. But only use very short bursts because of the flammability of the starter fluid.
Thanks for the details about the distributor parts and replacement costs. I will let other know of your services. And also, thanks for the very positive evaluations and nominations.
Roland
